We’re finally here. All of the questions will supposedly now be answered. Season 6, the final season in the LOST saga has begun and no where else better to talk about it than right here with the fans. You asked for it and you got it – the RowThree LOST discussion thread. See the rules below before entering the island.
There are a FEW RULES to this particular discussion though:
RULES: show
1) To newcomers of “LOST:” This discussion is current and up to date and anything discussed in the comment section below may and will include any plot summary, character development, etc. etc. as of the latest publicly aired episode on network television. In other words, once an episode has aired in its entirety on ABC (in any time zone), it is fair game to discuss anything that has happened up to and including that point.
2) Recent comments here at RowThree.com show up on the right side of the page with the first sentence or two of each comment for the world to see. It’s hard to miss. So if you plan on posting in this thread, you have two options:
– - A) If you’ve been around here before and know what you’re doing, make sure there is NOTHING REMOTELY SPOILERIFIC in the first couple lines of your text. The RETURN KEY DOES NOT WORK FOR COVERING SPOILERS in the recent comments!!! You must have a certain number of text characters to buffer your spoilers.
– - B) If you’re not sure if what you have to say is spoilerific or not sure how the process works exactly, play it on the safe side and copy and paste the following emboldened text AT THE BEGINNING of your comment. If you follow this rule (the smart thing), there shouldn’t be any problem:
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
3) Discussing any past shows, up to and including the most recently aired show is fair game. If you have some inside information on future episodes or know something about a future episode and wreck it for the rest of us, your comment may be deleted – that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hypothesize of what you think is going on or what may happen in the future. By all means, feel free to share your thoughts or predictions. But if you write: “I got a stolen script from my friend who’s an extra and it says that ‘so and so’ is going to die in episode 14,” your comment will be deleted – and it will piss me off.
4) Co-writer, Kurt, needs to be watching this show pronto.
5) I’m not a fascist and I hate to be a hard-ass. That’s not my intention; but if these simple rules are ignored or broken, I do have the power and right to either edit or delete your comment. If it becomes a continuous problem, I can ban you from commenting in the future or even removing this entire thread/post altogether. That would suck.
6) If you come across something you find objectionable or have any questions at all, feel free to email me immediately and I’ll answer your question or make a quick and decisive judgment on the matter at hand.
7) I think that’s it. If you can think of something I missed, by all means, let me know. Otherwise, have fun and I’ll see you on the island.
February 3, 2010
Season 5 thread:
http://morepop.rowthree.com/2009/01/lost-season-5-discussion-thread/
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Yes, the virtual picketing worked!
So, a few initial thoughts from watching the season 6 premiere:
- So we finally got confirmation (or the closest thing to confirmation we’re likely to get from Lost) that MIB is, in fact, the Smoke Monster. Not terribly surprising since it’s been speculated on for ages now but nice to see it in there for a real to prove we’re not all mad. All we need now is for them to tell us HOW and WHY he’s able to shape-shift. How can they possibly explain something like that? This ain’t Heroes, ya know!
- I thought I would hate it if what they did with the bomb caused some sort of reset but the way they’re handling it they’re giving it to us both ways (eeugh?). It’ll be fascinating to see how they bring it all together, I’m going to guess the two timelines will converge into one at some point (did we already see that start happening with Desmon seemingly disappearing from 815?)
- Was I dreaming or did I see that the Island was fully underwater? That was in the timeline where 815 never crashed so does that mean sometimes when the Island “moves” it goes underwater?
- Which leads me to the question of what exactly did the bomb cause? Evidently there’s two timelines/realities going on but it seems they’re merging in some ways. For example, when they heard Juliet was still under the wreckage, the Hatch had been built and it was from after Desmond turned the fail-safe key or failed to push the numbers at the end of season 2(I remember Kate saying that’s *when* they were). So is different things from each of the timelines being merged together, as in the bomb changed things but the Island is course corrected things? (Sorry if I’m lacking sense…).
- Loved the appearances by past dead characters like Boone (although Shannon wasn’t there – apparently she was the only hold-out for coming back onto the show), Charlie (Jack saved his life as he did when Ethan hung him up in season 1), Frogurt and Artz. Glad they didn’t bring Nikki and Paulo back
- When MIB said to Richard that it was nice to see him out of chains, I think he was referring to the fact he was a slave on the black rock. Remember when we first saw it back in season 1 Locke said it was an old slave ship. So it comes to the Island, somehow ends up in the middle of it and Jacob makes him immortal to be “a kind of… advisor” to whoever’s leading the Others at any given moment.
- What do you guys think MIB meant by saying he wanted to go home? Was he brought to the Island by Jacob and somehow became trapped there and over time became more than just a man? And he simply wants to get off? Is that his end game?
- I’m REALLY digging the additions to the cast of Hiroyuki Sanada and John Hawkes (yet ANOTHER Deadwood star joins Lost). It was great the way they kind of launhed into the whole temple thing in this episode, kind of gives of the vibe of “Okay you wanted answers, how about the temple! Here it is!” You know? I was a little taken aback by how they heal people, with some sort of dirty swimming pool (although the guy did mention that it wasn’t clear). Loved the little dig when Sanada said “I don’t like the taste of English on my tongue”.
- What’s the deal with Cindy? She was taken over 3 years ago in the timeline (don’t go there
…), so she’s obviously integrated into them. But was she just a stewardess who was taken an “converted?” Or has she been on the Island before and was making sure the Losties got to the Island? She said in the temple that “They’re from the first plane.” Obviously they’re aware of the Ajira survivors.
That’s all I can think of for now, would love to hear your guys’ thoughts.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I continue right off where we left off, I hated the season finale, and I hate much of this season premiere. I am hoping this is just a transitional problem and things will get better. I do however very much like the idea of what they are doing with the flash-betweens, and actually like the LAX stuff pretty well, its just everything on the island was done so poorly, the characters feel swept up by a plot that will not stop jumping to something new, the pacing is off… I also miss In-Control Ben.
Dumb stuff: Sawyer saying he is going to kill Jack, then they cut and its daylight and nothing apparently happened. The bodyguards storm in to confront MiB but Ilana inexplicably stays behind (I guess they wanted her to live), and that main bodyguard actor is a horrible actor, and the scene was just bad.
I like the ideas, but the execution of them is lousy lately (not to mention the CGI of underwater Island).
Jacob is probably Sayid now, but wouldn’t it be cool if later on it was Jack who became Jacob, then you have this surrogate battle between Jack and Locke?
Due to the chains remark, Alpert was clearly a prisoner on the Black Rock.
I am confused by the hole in the ground, did the bomb go off or not, and how can it only sort of go off (i.e. such a small hole)?
Juliet saying it worked, I suspect means upon dying she was slipping into the LAX alternate reality?
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
So we started off last night’s episode by seeing that Desmond was on the plane, and the Island was under water. And those things are significant. Explains Damon Lindelof:
What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Also, the way it is able to shape shift is through magnetism. My gf pointed out that when people want to be protected they sprinkle metal shavings on the ground. So it’s not a smoke monster – it’s a magnet monster.
Also, John Hawkes. Yay!
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
I can’t believe you hated the season 5 finale (have you rewatched it at all? It holds up REALLY well) and didn’t like most of the premiere. The pacing’s not off it’s just different, a bit faster and everything is a bit crazy right now. But that reflects what just happened in the show – a frickin hydrogen bomb went off! As Andrew says there’s LOTS of stuff changed not just that 815 never crashed.
It was explained why Sawyer wasn’t going to kill Jack – he was angry at first (that sort of “see no sense” anger that you get) but when he calmed down just a bit he said “Jack deserves to suffer on this rock with the rest of us.”
I’ll need to watch it again to see why Ilana didn’t go in but didn’t that Bram guy and the other bodyguars sort of rush in very quickly? And Ilana was talking to Richard etc outside.
How do you expect them to show the underwater Island? They use CGI for all that kind of stuff – the Submarine, the plane crashing above Othersville, polar bear, smoke monster etc.
It would certainly be interesting to see Jack and Locke face off but they’re not really Jack and Locke, they’re Jacob and MIB. But at this point I don’t see how Jack would get to the point of being taken over. But we’ve only gotten a couple of episodes of season 6 so you never know.
That could very well be the case, that as Juliet was dying she went into the other reality. Sort of simialar to the way Charlotte, Desmond and Minkowski from the Freighter jumped back and forth in their mind to different points in their lives.
I actually forgot about Libby, Mr. Eko and Ana-Lucia but Shannon, Michael and Walt not being on there the writers have said is NOT a coincidence. Jimmy Kimmel asked them on his show if the fact that when Charlie showed up on the plane Desmond disappears – was that a coincidence and Darlton said yes. So unless they’re lying (which they didn’t appear to be) then you weren’t supposed to take anything from that. They also said the fact that Jack was the nervous one and Rose was calm (not the other way around as it was in the first episode) was on purpose.
Why do you think it is that the other reality Jack seemed to be the only one who recognized the others, if only faintly? Sort of like when you wake up from a dream and you can sort of remember but not really. And what was that blood on his neck supposed to mean? Bearing some sort of physical evidence of the “real reality?”
@Andrew,
Heh, Hawkes is awesome. He’s one of those actors that when you see him you say “Oh yeah I’ve seen him in everything.” Me and my parents always joke about what he shouts in From Dusk Till Dawn – “I never said help us!!!!” That’s what we call him when we see him – “Oh there’s I Never Said Help Us!”
February 3, 2010
“Under the circumstances I think I deserve a fuckin’ academy award for how natural I’m acting!!!”
February 3, 2010
I dont see what anyone could hate about whats happening
“Was I dreaming or did I see that the Island was fully underwater? That was in the timeline where 815 never crashed so does that mean sometimes when the Island “moves” it goes underwater?”
In the alternate timeline they never went back in time to help anyone, and thus Jughead probably exploded and sunk the island.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Goon, This may be a spoiler to you but…
My guess is, the island being underwater and the flight going as it would have is the resolution to the conflict that will play out through the rest of the season. What were seeing is what will happen to them when they finally beat the island. Sort of like an epilogue. But cut into the current story line.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Goon,
What do you mean Jughead probably exploded? Do you mean the hyddrogen bomb by the Losties exploding it? In that case that wouldn’t be possible because they never went back. If you mean it just exploded by itself, why would it? When it was damaged in 1954 it wasn’t going to explode it was just emitting radiation. And also, in the underwater shot it showed the Dharma houses which means it sunk sometime AFTER the ’70s.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
no rot
Jughead was on the island whether the losties arrived or not, and could have been detonated a zillion different ways. if that fucker hadnt been buried by the time of the Purge, who knows what couldve happened.
and for all i know for some reason Losties A blew up Island B, a signal to show that one universe can affect the other. alternate theory there worth thinking about.
February 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Goon,
(It’s Ross btw, not rot. Apology accepted
But wouldn’t Jughead completely destroy the Island instead of sinking it? And do you really think the Dharma Barracks (including a frickin’ swing set) would survive a hydrogen bomb detonation?
February 3, 2010
I dont know dude. we’re talking about survival logistics on Lost, here.
February 4, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I read a great theory that could explain both the timelines, and why we see the Island underwater in the alternate one:
The Losties setting off WAS The Incident all along but it just didn’t cause the effect that Daniel thought it would i.e. it didn’t cause the Hatch not to be built. So Jughead exploding was The Incident, the Dharma folk build the Hatch and they have the push the button as we’ve seen. And it just blew the Losties back to present day.
But the alternate timeline isn’t what happened as a result of Jughead detonating and it wasn’t that which caused the Island to sink (as I said before, a hydrogen bomb would completely destroy it) but rather it sunk because the Losties never crashed on the Island to end up detonating Jughead. Basically it was the Dharma folk at the Swan work site (hitting the massive pocket of energy) that caused this catstrophic event which pulled/pushed the Island under water, hence why in the alternate timeline the Losties land in LA and the Island is underwater. If would HAVE to be after the ’70s because we see the Dharma Barracks underwater.
Thoughts?
February 4, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I think I have figured something out but don’t want to say for fear of it being a spoiler. I will just say something said in the temple, if you think about it, explains a lot. I think they may reveal it soon, so I will wait a couple episodes before saying it.
February 5, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Rot, just say whatever’s on your mind.
February 5, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
ok, fine.
Hawkes asks who did this to Sayid, Jack say he is responsible, Hawkes looks at Jack and says do you accept the risks, and he says yes.
so what are the risks?
if you think back, virtually all the characters who died on the show have killed an Other. Charlie killed Ethan, Ana Lucia killed Goodwin, Echo killed two Others, Juliet killed angry Other (whose name escapes me), and Sayid attempted to kill Ben (who then was saved by being anointed). If we are to believe that Alex was similarly anointed, then this would make sense of Ben saying Widmore changed the rules, otherwise following this pattern anyone who kills an Other seals their own fate.
If this is true, and it makes sense as it seems to to Hawkes that Jack is ‘responsible’ for Sayid’s death, thus incurring risk, then Jack is much like Charlie was, fated to die.
February 5, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Sun killed Danny Picket’s wife. Sawyer killed Mr. Tom Friendly.
February 5, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
It’s an interesting theory, rot, but as Rusty says there were others who killed, well… Others including Hurley, who killed Ryan with the Dharma van. Are they fated to die, too?
What’s your guys’ thoughts on the spring that supposedly heals people in the Temple? Why was the water not clear and what significance did that have? And BTW, does anyone have any idea what Dogen said in Japanese after Lennon asked why the water wasn’t clear? He didn’t translate and I couldn’t find a transcribe of that particular part on Lostpedia or anywhere. I was surprised it was something as… tangable as a spring that heals people at the Temple. I had in mind – when Richard took young Ben – it would involve something more mystical/magical.
February 5, 2010
@ And BTW, does anyone have any idea what Dogen said in Japanese after Lennon asked why the water wasn’t clear?
Where are you getting these names from?
February 6, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Rusty James,
They’re not given in the episode but they’re listed on the cast list and on Lostpedia. I guess they called the translator Lennon because of his circled glasses, and I believe Dogen means something (“Do” I think I read means “the way/path of”).
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dogen
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lennon
February 7, 2010
(Sorry, posted this in the wrong – season 5 discussion – thread)
Hey, you guys seen this? http://www.newsweek.com/id/40211#?l=1785302026&t=64735611001
It’s a video of people who’ve never seen Lost watching different clips and trying to explain what’s going on. It’s very funny for fans of the show.
February 8, 2010
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20339244_4,00.html
This article by Jensen (at EW) is the best theory I’ve heard so far concerning the significance of Christian Shepard.
Any other theories?
I don’t know about you guys but I’m pretty sure Christian is a huge piece of the puzzle. There has to be some reason why they keep reminding us of him. I even think he might be part of some trinity with Jacob and Monster.
February 9, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Rusty James,
Yes, I definitely think Christian has a significant part to play in how things will ultimately play out. Apart from being one of the most significant father figures in the show (arguably THE most, next to Locke’s father), I’m gonna’ guess he was on the Island and has a history with it in a similar way that Widmore has (perhaps he was exhiled and was trying to get back, the same as Jack and the rest of the 06 did, which is maybe his secret reason for drinking so much).
Would that mean Jack’s grandfather that we saw is connected? Hmmm…
February 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I am stealing directly from Matt B from Mamo because he says what I was thinking and it saves me writing it:
“Smokey can become anyone who hasn’t been buried. I cannot for the life of me figure why I didn’t notice this before. John, Christian, Alex, Yemi… am I missing anyone?”
That’s why they have to burn bodies too.
Enjoyed this episode much more. Digging Dogen as a character.
February 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Funny how you and I disagree about this show Rot. I thought last night’s episode was terrible. A bunch of soap opera bullshit that basically spent 45 minutes doing nothing in order to tell us Claire is alive… and has a gun.
The whole “take the pill” interaction was brutally hard to watch in its annoying-inity.
“what’s in the pill?”
“we don’t have time for that now.”
– five minutes of bullshit takes place
“ready to tell me what’s in it now?”
“it’s poison.”
huh, guess you had the time to tell me afterall. Jack and Kate do this to each other all the time too. I hate how everyone feels the need to be mysterious.
“Why can’t we go outside?”
“don’t worry about that now. trust me.”
“you just drowned and killed my friend, then electrocuted and burned him with a hot poker. trust you?”
“I don’t have time to explain”
“you’ve been sitting around looking at a baseball for half an hour.”
“it’s important you don’t go outside.”
“why? and what’s with the powder you keep sprinkling about?”
“it’s protection.”
“from what?”
– stares blankly at Jack (or Sawyer or whoever)
“I’m leaving now.”
“you must not go out there.”
“Jesus! Why NOT!?”
quote of the day:
“no [Hurley]… I’m not. a zombie.”
February 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I don’t think its poison, I think Dogen said that because it is the easier thing to say. With respects to the Others I think they are withholding the answers, not only because that makes for good mystery, but what they have to tell them could seriously be beyond them, and or, the rules may not allow them to affect their free will (Imagine if Ben had told them what its all about at the end of season 2, knowing what we already know). The one I don’t quite understand is Juliet WAS an Other, couldn’t she have explained everything about the Temple to them, if it was so easy to explain?
For a Kate episode it was very good, and I actually bought the Sawyer emotion in this one.
I am leaning towards the belief that what we are seeing off-island right now is a precursor to any adjustments, everything we are accustom to are those encounters rerouted for some cosmic end. So Claire keeping her baby is what happened, and what must happen (hence the whole season 5 stuff about Claire needing to be with Erin). Locke’s spine being fixed by Jack (which I assume will happen) manifests in the alternative as Locke can walk.
also still holding out on the idea that risks of killing an Other idea… will see.
February 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Oh yes. Forgot about Sawyer. I agree. I think he’s been taking some acting classes.
February 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
*In comes the guy who automatically defends Lost*
I disagree with you Andrew and agree with Rot (shock!^_^) – I thought last night’s episode was great. Loved the stuff with Dogen and Jack: as Rot says, I think they’re withholding information (and it makes for good mystery). What would be the fun in him just telling him everything? Also like Rot says could Ben really have explained everything when they found out who he really was? Remember the Others have been there a long time and as the “middle” Eloise Hawking said in 1977 they’re not in the habit of telling their secrets and letting them walk off. They can’t just reveal secrets just like that.
@rot,
Well Juliet was an Other but she wasn’t on the Island for long enough for them divulge every piece of vital info about the Island to her. Remember she just lived and worked within the Dharma barracks not at the Temple or anything.
@”I am leaning towards the belief that what we are seeing off-island right now is a precursor to any adjustments, everything we are accustom to are those encounters rerouted for some cosmic end.”
I think that’s going to be one of the points of season 6 – the alt timeline events lining up with what we know from the normal timeline. I think about half way through we’re going to see the timelines collide and become one (if one is to win out I think it will be the normal one), sort of like a “two timelines can’t exist at once” sort of thing.
That’s a good theory about Smokey only being able to inhabit the dead who are not buried. Although the fact that Ben’s mother appearing to him (assuming that was Smokey manifesting and not just his imagination) goes against that. I read a theory somewhere that Smokey only knows who to turn into to play with the character’s mind and whatnot if they’ve been around them. Case in point – Smokey appeared to Mr. Eko and when the camera panned round you could see flashes of images like Eko’s mother’s grave etc and it wasn’t until after that Smokey appeared as Yemi. Thoughts on that?
So are we thinking that Sayid is really resurrected and has been “claimed” like Dogen and Lennon said? Or is he Jacob whose just waiting to make his move on MIB when he appears? If he HAS been claimed what do you think that will ultimately mean? Will he turn “evil” and go join MIB? Maybe try to kill the Losties?
Anyway, great episode IMO but that’s coming from a Lost fanboy
(Btw, rot, it’s AARON to ERIN
)
February 12, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Yeah I keep forgetting that there was two kinds of classes in the Others, because a lot of them seemed kept in the dark about who Jacob was, so I guess I can see how Juliet would have been ignorant of the Temple stuff. Still she must have known why Jack and Kate and Sawyer were held captive in Season 3 because in that premiere Ben matter of factly gets everyone to go to their respective places in anticipation of the crash and Juliet appears in on it.
My hope is all this secretive behavior has to do with an overriding rule that certain information cannot be divulged without improperly influencing the characters. That the Others needs to respect Free Will (i.e., Dogen trying to keep his distance). If it is just a convenience of storytelling, that would kind of suck. Pawns are easier to control the less they know about their purposes, perhaps.
I get this image in my head of one of those old-fashioned toys with the small ball-bearings that you move around to get into the indents, and something like the Incident scatters the balls, but eventually they fall back into place, even if different balls are in different places (i.e. Rousseau being replaced by Claire, or on Aljira, Sayid replacing Kate, Locke replacing Ben). Fate correcting itself, like Charlie and avoiding death, there is still some randomness, some free will, but in the end the main markers are fixed.
anyways just rambling.
February 13, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Here’s a random observation: Almost every finale contains a reference to Moses
Season 1 is called Exodus,
Season 3 Naomi compares Jack to Moses
Season 5 Ben compares Locke (who later turns out not to be locke) to Moses
I can’t think of one for season 2 and 4 but I bet on rewatch I could find / make them up.
Moses was Aaron’s brother and an adopted Egyptian Prince.
Discuss
February 17, 2010
Terry O’Quinn is getting an Emmy this year.
another satisfying episode, things feel like they are really winding down and I am getting a big The Stand vibe now.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
“The Substitute” was the best episode so far this year. I read the entertainment weekly review every week – I don’t know that I have anything to offer that Doc Jensen didn’t state. I like the ambiguities in the relationship between FLocke and Sawyer. We have no idea if either of them is being honest at all with each other. I’m guessing they’re both playing each other. It wouldn’t make sense if they’re characters were being totally honest with each other. We’ve already seen FLocke manipulate Ben. And Sawyer is still Sawyer.
Thoughts on the boy in the jungle? I thought it was Jacob. And thoughts on another boy – I’m pretty sure that was a nod to Walt when Locke asked the boy for directions to the teacher’s lounge. And speaking of teacher’s lounge, I’m guessing we will see Locke and Ben as friends, similar to Locke’s interaction with Jack at the airport.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Pardon the French but holy shit was than an amazing episode. A great counter-balance to what I think a lot of people didn’t like about last week’s Kate-centric episode (i.e. not giving much naswers whereas this gave a lot).
I think the boy is Jacob (maybe somehow Jacob’s past “lingers” on the Island in different stages – I wonder why Sawyer was able to see him but Richard wasn’t?), but others are theorizing it’s Aaron a few years down the line. Interesting theory but honestly I think people are just saying that because he has blonde hair
(some people have even said in the past that Aaron IS Jacob…).
I would be surprised if O’Quinn didn’t at least get a nod, if not win another Emmy. He’s doing such a great job playing this new guy, as well as the Locke in the ALT timeline.
So we’re finally getting some more insight into the numbers: They correspond to certain of the Losties – do you think it’s the amount of them there has been? Like there’s been 15 candidates in the same vein as Sawyer, for instance? And did anyone else notice there was no number of Kate? Was that because she’s not fit to take Jacob’s place? And who was 42 – Kwon, Jin or Sun? Maybe both?
I’ll jump back with more thoughts later but those are just my immediate impressions. Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts on the above questions/areas of discussion.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Great episode last night. I think the kid is definitely Jacob. It’s like Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I like that idea Ross, about the number beside the name being number of incarnations that have occurred. Like I said before I think there is something to analogues in this story, Claire being the next Rousseau, for example.
I’m thinking its Jin who is important because Sun didn’t flash away on Aljira with everyone else.
I am going to go on record as saying Flocke is Aaron, or an incarnation, however that works.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I’ll be shocked if the kid is anyone but Jacob. He looks exactly like him.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
Well I wasn’t actually meaning the numbers corresponded to different versions of the same people (i.e. through different timelines or whatever) but I just candidates LIKE each other. For example 4 candidates with Locke’s attributes (with faith, trusting) or 15 with Sawyer’s (physically can handle himself, looks out for thing’s he cares about). But I like the idea of the numbers being about various versions of the same person. Both are satisfactory IMO.
Good point about 42 being Jin and not Sun. The writers have said there’s an important reason Sun didn’t travel but Jin did. It may be because Sun isn’t fit to take over the role of Jacob (I’m sorry but she’s just not…).
@Andrew,
I would be surprised, too, if the boy wasn’t Jacob. Why else would he be saying stuff like, “It’s the rules?” I really doubt it’s Aaron, I just don’t see them going that route at this stage.
You lost me with Star Trek III. Only ever seen the new Star Trek, never sat down and fully watched any of the TV show(s) or old movies. I assume it’s something about several versions (at different ages) being in the one place?
Whta do you guys think the significance of the ALT timeline is in relation to what’s happening in the original timeline? The writers have pointed out something very true in that why should we, the audience, care about what happens in the ALT timeline when we REALLY care about the original timeline? Well, the writers said it’s not just showing what could have happened had 815 never crashed but there’s a reason that links up with what’s going on in the original timeline. What could that be? We can see all of the characters intertwining once more but it obviously has more meaning now. I’m still sticking with that before show’s end (probably sooner rather than later) the two timelines will converge.
BTW, the only thing that annoyed me about this episode was not seeing any of Claire. That was the cliffhanger last time and they didn’t even mention her. I guess they’re going to do this flip-flopping between the Flocke, Ben, Sun etc story and the Temple story until the two sides meet up. They did the same thing at the start of season 3 where they didn’t go back to Desmond, Locke etc after the Hatch imploded until like episode 3 or 4.
February 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
In your wildest dreams did you ever think we’d get a smoke-monster centric episode of LOST? Awesome, I loved seeing him trip and fall, chasing after apparitions, being surprised, asking questions.
Monster = Aaron is a pretty good guess. It’s pretty suspicious that we haven’t learned his name yet. I don’t know if he’s literally Aaron Littleton but maybe a different Aaron. Maybe Aaron Littleton is named after him.
Do you think European History Teacher Ben remembers being on the island as a kid? Was this Ben healed by Richard in the temple? Did he too lose his innocence, will he always be one of them?
Here’s an elegant little idea. The first scene in Locke’s flash sideways is a mirror of Locke’s arrival to the Island. He crashes to the ground, is baptised by the sprinklers and is greated by Helen as the counter point to the monster who hells him to his feet.
February 18, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I hear you on the Smoke Monster-centric thing. I don’t think anybody could have predicted the way the writers have went with Smokey being an actual person. That thing with Jacob and his nemesis that they showed in the season 5 finale came out of nowhere and yet fits PERFECTLY in with the rest of the show.
I don’t see how MIB is Aaron myself, not unless Aaron grows up, gets sent back in time and then is stuck there. I think he’s just a guy from the past, perhaps brought there by Jacob, whose sick of being on the Island.
Some thoughts, BTW, on the whole thing of MIB wanting to leave with Sawyer: Do we take it that someone has to accompany him if he’s to get off the Island? Do they have to go willingly, hence why he hasn’t forcefully taken someone with him long before? Is it part of “the rules” that he can’t leave alone?
I do think Ben still went to the Island as a kid but he did not get healed by the Others because remember Sayid and the rest never crashed on the Island in the ALT timeline so Sayid was never there to shoot Ben and Kate and Sawyer were never there to deliver him to the Temple to be healed (taking away his innocence). I think he left with his father when the Dharma folk were being evacuated. Since he was never healed and never lost his innocence, my guess is he’ll be really nice now. And the great thing is we get more of the Terry O’Quinn/Michael Emerson dialogue (at least in the ALT timeline).
What do you mean Locke being baptised by the sprinkles as opposed to, “the monster who hells him to his feet.” Was it the Monster that healed Locke and made him walk? Or am I missing something?
Oh, and a couple more thoughts on the numbers: I was rewatching the episode where Jin is with Rousseau’s team and they’re attacked – in the “Previously on Lost” bit at the beginning when Montand is listening to the transmission, you can hear the person saying the numbers is CLEARLY Hurley. Thoughts?
Also about the numbers: I’ve looked at screencaps of the cave walls/ceiling and other Losties like “Littleton” (Claire? Aaron?) and “Pace” as in Charlie (he’s crossed out, obviously) are there.
Do we think MIB is being entirely truthful with what he says to Sawyer? Does the Island really not need protecting? Or it does and he’s just become disillusioned with what Jacob has been saying? Jacob MUST have had a reason to give them all a number each, and my guess is still that they signify how many likenesses of each character there’s been.
February 18, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
In ST II: Wrath of Khan, Spock dies. In part III he’s reborn as a little kid on the new planet created by project genesis. Jesus I’m a dork. It’s actually my least favorite of all the ST movies.
February 18, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@It’s actually my least favorite of all the ST movies.
WHAT?!?!?!?! Search for Spock is the most fun and accessible of the star trek films. Plus it introduced the Bird of Prey.
Are you counting the Next Gen films? Search for Spock is clearly better than every Next Gen Movie.
February 19, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
rewatched the season 5 finale last night and noticed that Jacob, while he does touch both Jin and Sun, focuses virtually all his attention on Jin, so I think it is pretty clear he is the candidate, not Sun.
and I understand what you’re saying Ross, I wasn’t saying this is the 5th exact replica of Sawyer, just something about that character is incarnated (reincarnated? like the rearranged letters on the van in season 5?). I think Ilana seems a lot like Ana Lucia, maybe its just looks, I don’t know.
February 19, 2010
My favs in order (as I remember them – it’s been a while):
IV
II
VI
III (admittedly need a rewatch – it’s been a LONG time)
I
V
TNG:
First Contact
Generations
Nemesis
Insurrection
February 21, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
I watched that scene again with Jacob greeting Sun and Jin and yo’re right, he DOES put more emphasis on Jin when he touches their arms. And he nods and looks at Jin when he says not to take their marriage for granted. I’m sure that was on purpose by the writers.
What do you mean like the letters on the van in season 5? And I don’t think Illana is a candidate, she’s just a follower of Jacob, like the Others followed him. I’ll be interested to find out more about Illana. Right now she’s uninteresting compared to everyone else we care more about, but that’s just because we don’t know much about her/haven’t spent that much time concentrating on her. I want to find out why she was in the Russian hospital, with such a bad injury (head completely bandaged) and how her head and face don’t bear any scars.
What are your guys’ thoughts on the little blonde boy? Is he Jacob? I did think that initially but then I thought of this: what if he’s a sort of referee for this game Jacob and MIB had going? Or a referee for the Island in general? Like he makes sure the rules are being followed. The casting call for him, I read on Lostpedia, was for a young teenage boy, 12-14, who has “dealt with a horrible family accident,” and has been put in charge of something very important, even at his young age, and, “it weights havily on his shoulders.” It also says he’s “wise beyond his years.” Do you think when Jacob and MIB started whatever the game was they had going they tasked the blonde kid with making sure the rules are stuck to? Kind of like an independant voice of reason?
February 22, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
When Ben is trying to get the Oceanic 6 together he is driving a van with a very prominent name on it (Canton- something) and seeing as most things have meaning in this show, a lot of people unscrambled the word to spell Reincarnation.
February 22, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Hmmm, wonder why I never noticed that before. Interesting.
I posted this theory on DarkUFO the other day but wanted to post it here to get your guys’ thoughts on whether you think it sounds plausible or not. I’ll just copy and paste:
When Ilana, Sun, Ben and Frank are carrying Locke’s dead body to be buried with everyone else who has died on the beach, Ben asks why they had to bring Locke’s body. She replies that they needed to know what they’re up against. And Ben then asks what’s to stop what they’re up against from changing into someone else, Illana replies that he can’t because he’s stuck this way.
Now why would that suddenly be the case? My theory is that it’s as a result of MIB finding his loophole to kill Jacob. Jacob made MIB the way he is i.e. being able to change into the Smoke Monster and manifest as other people, and MIB’s ability to do so was always tied to Jacob from then on (remember MIB said to Sawyer in “The Substitute” that he used to be a man like him). This would also be the case with Richard i.e. Jacob made Richard that way (Richard said so himself near the end of season 5). But now that Jacob is dead, MIB’s ability to change into whoever he wants whenever he wants has been taken away and he’s stuck only being able to change between the forms of the Smoke Monster and the last person he manifested as who is Locke.
How this affects Richard being ageless remains to be seen, but my guess is he’ll just start ageing normally (he won’t, for example, suddenly age really quickly into a really old man or crumble away) now.
Thoughts?
February 23, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Hm, Smoke Monster used the same MO with Claire as with Locke. “Your baby must not be raised by another”, convincing her Aaron is some messiah when in fact it’s all part of his plan to manipulate his victim with delussions of granduer.
February 24, 2010
This was one of the worst episodes they have made in the six year run. truly. When they said they were going to make this season feel a lot like season 1, I didn’t know they meant The Moth.
Not even Ross can defend it.
February 24, 2010
You’re wrong, rot. Busy just now but I’ll be back to defend it shortly
February 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Okay, here I come…
What was so bad about the episode, rot? I admit it’s not completely the same as season 1 as they’ve been hinting at but wasn’t that inevitable? I mean, things have moved on SO much from just the character centric stuff (getting to know the character’s backstories etc) into all the mythology, bigger picture stuff. They’ve got all this stuff to deal with so it can’t be completely like the first season where they were just starting out and had more time to play with (I know you’re going to through What Kate Does from a couple of weeks ago in my face there
).
Didn’t you dig the Lighthouse of the episode’s title? I thought it was a really intriguing thing to bring in. Another mysterious thing – like the conflict between Jacob and MIB in season 5′s finale – that wasn’t mentioned before but fits really well into the whole thing (I laughed when Jack asked how come we didn’t see it before and Hurley replied that we must not have been looking). Although it seemed strange neither Hurley nor Jack questioned the actual physical possibility of how the hell you can see into someone’s life through a mirror, it was certainly a good plot deveice for unravelling everything (having said that it’s a pretty bold thing that begs to be explained, I guess it’s not anymore strange than the Smoke Monster or time travelling…).
I really liked the fact that they brought in that the ALT Jack had a son. It brings more depth and reiterates one of THE themes of the show – Daddy issues. We’ve mostly seen those from our Losties having issues with THEIR fathers but now we get to see Jack having a son and how HE affects his life. One thing that stuck with me, though, was how did the plane not crashing have ANY affect on Jack having a son or not? David looked at least 12…
Speaking of which, do you guys think the ALT timeline is showing not what would happen necessarily if their plane didn’t crash but if Jacob didn’t affect their lives? The only major thing I can see which negates that theory is Jack’s son as like I said, he looked about 12 or 13 but Jacob didn’t touch Jack until not that long before he went to Australia to pick up his father’s body. But something that DOES support it is Dogen being at the piano audition with his son – Dogen said he was brought to the Island and we’re seeing him living a normal life since Jacob didn’t bring him to the Island.
I really got a kick out of them throwing in the head on dealing with the Adam & Eve skeletons. Like they did with Miles saying in The Incident “What if the bomb IS the Incident? And would it be best if we just did nothing?”, they confront the burning question of who those skeletons are – “What if we time travelled back to dinosaur times and got buried here… what if these skeletons are us, dude?” I’m interested more than ever what they’re going to reveal that mystery as (something tells me it’s too obvious to Rose & Bernard – doesn’t seem “wow!” enough for Lost).
What do you think Jacob meant when he said “someone’s coming to the Island”? Is it just MIB and he was really meaning that he’s going to the temple? He called him a “bad person.” I can’t think who else he’d be talking about at this stage. And what do you think Jack’s “something that he has to do”? Is it to defeat MIB and become the new Jacob? Is he THE candidate? If anyone’s going to be I think it’d be Jack. And I didn’t notice it myself but on the wheel in front of the mirror Kate’s number was finally revealed at 51. That’s not one of THE numbers and yet she was touched by Jacob (eugh?) when she was young? Is she important or not?
I really don’t see how this is one of the worst episodes of all the seasons so far. Not up there with the best and not a good as “The Substitute” but great nonetheless.
There – episode defended
February 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I said a long time ago that those skeletons were likely a few of our Losties. If I remember right it was two men and one woman.
February 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Andrew,
I don’t believe there was a few. Just two – a man and a woman (although I don’t know if their genders were ever officially established). Hence Adam & Eve. Were there more than two bodies in that last episode? I didn’t notice.
February 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I don’t get comparing it to the Moth. I really liked this episode. I thought the stuff with Claire was intense. I loved the Lighthouse.
February 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
The numbers are degrees on a compass. Awesome!
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Rusty,
Is that sarcastic about the degress thing? If so, why? If not, I agree with you – awesome!
And yes the stuff with Claire was great. She’s the new Rousseau, sort of. And I’m really intrigued to find out how MIB is her “friend.” How does she not realize she left the baby in the jungle? Or was it Christian (well, MIB manifesting as Christian anyway) and if so why he didn’t tell her?
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I hope they don’t take the Eden stuff too literally in the reveal, because it would seem they are:
snake-like smoke monster that recruits people to its side by promising knowledge (Flocke’s conversations with Richard and Sawyer), Adam and Eve are the skeletons… now we just need a tree of knowledge.
also a literal ‘Jacob’s ladder’ to the cave:
“Jacob’s Ladder is a ladder to heaven, described in the Book of Genesis, which the biblical patriarch Jacob envisions during his flight from his brother Esau.” -wikipedia
In OT, Jacob had a twin brother, Esau who sought to kill him . “Esau became a hunter, a man of the field, but Jacob was a simple man, a dweller in tents” (Genesis 25:27).
sounds about right.
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Hey Ross, go back and watch season 1 – the skeletons are very definitely mention as three of them – two men and a woman.
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Oh wait. Maybe it was one man and one woman. I know for sure their genders were established though. And Jack would obviously know the difference as a surgeon.
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Yes, Andrew, it was definitely just two skeletons, one man and one woman as you say. I can’t remember them establishing the genders but obviously they have (either within the show or the writers confirming it outside of it) or else no one would be just asumming they’re a man and a woman.
@rot,
Wow, that biblical stuff sounds pretty akin to what’s going on in the show with Jacob and MIB. Do you really think they would be as literal as that and reveal MIB’s name to be Esau? The writers have said his name has been held back for a reason, because it has such importance/meaning.
Also, guys, who do you think Candidate number 108 is? Jacob sent Hurley and Jack on that mission and before Jack turned it back to his number – 23 – and smashed the mirrors they were instructed to turn it to 108 degrees. My guess is Desmond, considering he is “uniquely and mircaulously special.” We haven’t seen anything about him since he vowed never to leave Penny again while recovering in the hospital from Ben shooting him. However, on Lospedia where they have screengrabs of the candidates names on the compass wheel it says “Wallace – 108″ http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wallace.jpg …whoever the hell THAT is. Is 108 really Desmond and the writers just wrote “Wallace” on the prop not expecing Lost fans to be able to get a screengrab? Or is it really a guy with the surname “Wallace” that we just haven’t seen yet?
February 25, 2010
@Ross re:ALT timeline – you have to remember that after they crashed they traveled back in time, which would have some effect on the reality of that timeline. In the ALT-timeline, since they never crashed, they could very well have affected events that occurred before the crash, as far back as ’54, or whenever it was that they told the others to bury the bomb.
re:Jacob stating that someone is coming. This immediately reminded me of the Whitmore team coming to the island. Farraday was on that team. I’m pretty sure he’ll come back in this season in the alt-timeline, and using Desmond he’ll find some way to cross over to the other timeline.
I think the odds are 50/50 that Juliet is David’s mom. Any takers on this one?
Another good episode. I think last week’s was better, but they’ve def improved since the first two weeks.
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
“Hey Ross, go back and watch season 1 – the skeletons are very definitely mention as three of them – two men and a woman.”
Andrew, you’re being dense. They refer to the skeltons as “adam and eve”. There’s two, a man and a woman
“I think the odds are 50/50 that Juliet is David’s mom. Any takers on this one?”
speaking of 50/50 odds… every flash sideways has featured an appearance from the others. Are they innocents living a new life or spies trying to recruit them for some purpose? I’d put the odds at about 50 /50 but favor the later.
I also think that their presents is the most straight forward sign that it’s not the bomb that sinks the island. If it were Ben and Ethan would be dead. We know that neither of them were on the submarine.
Goon brings up a good point that setting off the bomb would impact events eariler than 1977 because some of them end up traveling back in time to 1954 and beyond. But we also know that the island sinks after the DI arrives because we see the baracks underwather.
Ross, I was definitely not being sarcastic. I really enjoyed this episode.
February 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Rot, another parrallel between the smoke monster and the serpant; the smoke moster convinces his pawns that they have some special destiny. And the serpent flatters eve by comparing her to the gods.
February 26, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@stump,
Yes, I know they time travelled back as far back as 1954 but I don’t understand how that would affect something like Jack having a kid or not. Jack didn’t even travel back (he was off-Island while Locke, Sawyer, Juliet etc were time-skipping) so it wouldn’t really have affected whether he fathered a son.
That’s a good theory that Juliet is David’s mom. It would be an ironic counterpoint to what happened on the Island. Also, whose betting that while Jack was spending his “once a month” time with his son that the ALT-Juliet was off having coffee with the ALT-Sawyer? Remember she said “we can go dutch” right before she died? I think she was jumping in her consciousness back and forth between the two timelines (if Desmond can do it but going back into his past, then it’s entirely possible it would happen between the timelines) and that’s why she said “It worked.”
I really think “Candidate 108 – Wallace” is Desmond, with that just being his mother’s maiden name (Wallace is a Scottish name). Remember we haven’t even learned who Desmond’s mother (or father, for that matter) is. And they made such a big deal of him being special so I’m thinking he has a major part to play (the crucial part?) in merging the two timelines. After all, he mysteriously disappeared on the ALT-815 plane. Did he jump physically between timelines?… Hmmm…
@Rusty,
Interesting point about the Others appearing in the flashsideways. I don’t think they’re spies recruiting the Losties, I just think it’s meant to show them in a good light. Having said that, Ethan being nice in the ALT timeline to Claire was the exact same way he acted in the original timeline when he treated hee. You never know with that sneaky bastard
I really don’t think it was the bomb that caused the Island to sink – I said it before right after the first two episodes of this season: the bomb WAS The Incident all along and since they never crashed in the ALT-timeline, they never went back to in time and set of the bomb and whatever was happening with the electromagnetic energy is what “pulled the island under” or sinking it. Hence why we saw it sunk AFTER the Dharma barracks were built. And the reason Ben and Ethan weern’t drowned is because they were evacuated along with everyone else (remember Chang evacuating everyone?). Ben was the 10 year old we saw first arriving to the Island and Ethan would just be a baby, would he not? And that further backs up the Juliet being David’s mum thing, as since the Island was sunk she never would have been brought there to do experiments on the pregnant women.
February 26, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I heard this on a podcast, but apparently the episode sequence of this season is mirroring exactly that of season 1. Damon and Carleton had said this was going to feel a lot like season 1, and apparently so.
Lighthouse is a pair with White Rabbit (Jack’s key to his ex’s house is under a stone rabbit), Substitute and Walkabout, and whatever else. The next episode would have to be a Sun or Jinn episode I think. So maybe Lighthouse wasn’t exactly The Moth
that said, if this is true and they get to Charlie ep, I suspect that is when they are going to do the Richard ep.
February 26, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I’m sure they’ll just let got of the pattern eventually. I really doubt episode 7 will be a charlie episode. Or episode 11 will be another Jack episode. Or that ep17, the series finale will be a Hurly episode.
I wouldn’t be surprised if ep 7 is the first to break the pattern. And Dickie Alpert is high on my list of eps I’m looking forward to (or should I say looking sideways to, hmmm) .
I don’t really like how this season has devalued him. We’ve been told he’s really signifcance, we’ve seen that he has amazing abilities we’ve all waited to see more from him. And now in season six they pull the rug out and tell us nope, actually this Illana person is more important. I don’t give a fuck about Illana.
And is it me, or does Dogen seem to know more than Richard. Unlike Richard he seemed to know what a candidate is. Doesn’t make much sense if you ask me.
Anyone got any good Illana theories? silence
I like the idea that she’s from another vessel that crashed on the island. She and her crew (Bram and the rest) survived, had their own adventures, learned the secrets of the island and found their way back to civilization.
It seems like if that were the case then Ben would know about her. Unless… maybe she’s before his time? Maybe she’s before Dick’s time?
February 26, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Hey, where do we all stand on Smoke Monster vs Jacob? A lot of people seem to take it as a given that Smoke Monster is evil and Jacob is good but I just don’t see it. I don’t see how either one of them can claim the moral high ground.
I suppose we’ve seen more malevolence from Smoke Monster. But Jacob’s more conniving . He’s dishonest and manipulative. He acts like he’s working for some greater good, but so did the others (who were following his orders supposedly)
Plus he’s at least indirectly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people. Just from Oceanic 815 alone.
I don’t see how Smoke Monster claiming recruits is worse than Jacob’s abduction lists and candidates. If anything SM is a lot more upfront and honest about it.
Smoke Monster didn’t “infect” Sawyer, he offered him something he wanted. All Jacob ever gave him was a pen, the price was a life time of lies and manipulation.
To me, their conflict represents free will vs. destiny. Not good vs evil.
February 26, 2010
I don’t think Jacob will turn out to be the “big bad” like some people online think. Daemon and Carlton have too much reverence for classic storytelling than to pull that post-modern BS on us. In terms of UNLock seeming so honest with Sawyer, well, the devil tells us lies and half-truths that we want to hear. “God” (if we want to go there) “works in mysteries ways.” It’s about faith, something the show has been about since the get-go.
Maybe this was already discussed here, but I definitely think the “last supper” promo is a huge clue that the LOSTies will take sides between UNLock and Jacob… I also think Kate will die because she still seems so dislocated and has nothing to return home too now that Claire is back.
February 27, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
I think that’s part of the writers’ whole plan of “make Season 6 feel more like season 1″, the mirroring of episodes thing. It’s only right since this flashsideways thing has been brought into place, that what happened at the beginning is being paralleled as the show is ending.
Obviously they’re not going to make an episode parallel to Charlie’s in season 1 (although I predict we’ll see him show up again in the flashsideways). But I think Richard’s episode will be later in the season, not right at near the end but perhaps around 11 or 12. Episode 6 seems a tad too soon. But along with Rusty his episode is, apart from the series final (obviously), my most anticipated. Anyone placing bets he was on the Black Rock? Was MIB’s comment of “It’s nice to see you out of those chains” to be taken literally as in out of his slavery chains? Or is it, since MIB just killed Jacob, referring to the fact that Richard isn’t chained to doing what Jacob says anymore? Perhaps it’s both, the literal and metaphorical meaning.
@Rusty,
I don’t think they’re necessarily devaluing Richard or saying that Ilana is more important. But if she is important to the story – and she obviously is since she’s a season regular and clearly has history with Jacob as was seen in ‘The Incident’ – then they have allude to that. Otherwise it would be jarring when they just spring her importance on us all of a sudden later. She’s not as interesting as the rest of the cast but that’s just because we haven’t spent much time getting to know her or her story.
I think Dogen knowing more than Richard is a little strange but makes sense if you really think about it. Richard’s role, as Ben told Sun in ‘Follow the Leader’, is a kind of advisor. Which means he advises whoever happens to be the temporary leader of the Others (Ben, Locke, Eloise in the ’70s) and doesn’t get told absolutely everything. I’m going to guess that when Bram said that Frank may be a candidate (and is he? His name didn’t appear in the Cave or the The Lighthouse) only Ilana of that group really knew what that was. I think Illana led them and Bram was just following suit/orders.
I agree that it’s not a case of Jacob who is good and MIB who is bad. The battle is, as you say, free will vs. fate. MIB being fate and Jacob being free will. Can we really call either of them purely good or purely evil? MIB has hinted at being more than just evil when he said to Sawyer he was once a man who felt all the same emotions. And Jacob is clearly not purely good or else he wouldn’t be manipulating people and wouldn’t say things like “What ABOUT you?” to Ben. It’s definitely a grey area we’re dealing with.
@Agent Orange,
I definitely think the Losties will choose sides in this fight. And that’s a good theory that Kate will die, but I think she will reunite will Claire and try and help her back to the good side of the Force before that happens:P And with her number being 51, not one of THE numbers, it seems she’s not as important as the rest. But I really like Kate, I don’t get all the hate for her.
March 1, 2010
“I think that’s part of the writers’ whole plan of “make Season 6 feel more like season 1.″
Yep, I agree. All the stuff in between (Dharma etc) was window dressing. The most important questions were posed in season 1.
March 1, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@Agent Orange,
Just a quick note: You need to put that spoiler warning like I have above if you’re going to talk, well, spoilers. It’s just because new comments appear at the right and anyone who hasn’t seen the show or caught up might read a spoiler by accident. It’s happened to me before and it’s not fun.
I wouldn’t exactly call the Dharma stuff window dressing, they were integral to a certain portion of history on the Island, not to mention how the Losties ended up being able to detonate the Hydrogen bomb. But I really love that they’re harking back to season 1 with the last season. Sort of bookending it.
March 1, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I’d like to maybe provoke conversation about the actual lighthouse itself, which I haven’t seen much of, anywhere. It seemed we might have been on the verge of a window (intended) into the actual geographic and temporal location of the island, only to have Jack piss all over it. Does the island have an actual place in the world, on planet Earth? Or is it more mysterious? This might never be answered clearly on the show.
March 1, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
And another thing I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere – “Shepard” was clearly scrawled on top of the compass or what-have-you in writing different from all the other names, right? It looked like something/someone had changed it to add that name.
March 2, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@stump,
That’s an interesting thought, that the Island may not be physically on Earth as other places are. I dunno, kind of seems a bit TOO far to stretch but fascinating to ponder. I honestly think Jacob knew/expected Jack to do what he did to the Lighthouse. I don’t think the device matters anymore, I think he has narrowed down his candidate list and doesn’t need the Lighthouse anymore.
I haven’t mentioned it but I did notice – and others did too – that Jack’s name was written differently than the Others. And you mention it looks as if it’s been added a later stage. Well, remember Danny Pickett said way back in Seaosn 3 when Jack was brought in by Juliette to operate on Ben – “He’s not even on Jacob’s list.” Perhaps he wasn’t to begin with but Jacob was in the midst of making amendments and such and realized Jack was perhaps THE candidate and added him. Hence why his name seems to be more prominent than the others. I really think what Jack has to do, which Jacob was talking about to Hurley outside the Lighthouse, is to kill/defeat MIB and become the new Jacob.
March 2, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
loved the psyche out with the title “Sundown”
March 2, 2010
Great episode! Questions being answered and still done in an intriguing way – not in an “oh, that’s how it works”, lame-ass way.
Loved it.
March 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Catch a Falling Star? What a strange musical choice, I seem to remember it used before in the show.
with Locke at the temple I am getting a big Apocalypse Now vibe, just need to sacrifice some cattle. The Doors’ This is the End might have been a better musical choice.
So I expect Dogen is coming back the same way Sayid did.
The bafflement of Flocke at the sight of Kate about sums up ours, get the feeling the writers don’t know what to do with her character and she just tags along. Last time we saw her she specifically said she was not going back to the Temple.
so why is it that the death of Dogen is what allows Flocke to enter the temple? I would have thought it was a matter of having Claire kick the ash out of the way and let him in, but he only comes once Dogen is killed.
March 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Fucking great episode. Probably my favorite of this season after The Substitute. Like Andrew says, answering stuff but still in an intriguing, still mysterious way. It’s amazing how they slipped in a Sayid episode with those types of flash-sideways (the sentimental stuff to do with Nadia etc) and yet mix it with the high intensity, pretty fast paced stuff on Island in the original timeline and still make it work. You’d think it would feel like two separate shows but they make that kind of thing work so well. And Sundown was one of the best examples of that in ages.
Did anyone else think Sundown would mean it’s a Sun and Jun episode? After all, up until that episode in this season they had been following the episode character order of season 1 (Episode 3 in both seasons being Kate, episode 4 being Locke, episode 5 was Jack) and episode 6 of season 1 was House of the Rising Sun which was about Sun. I think it would have made sense to save that title “Sundown” to when it was her episode.
I honestly don’t think Dogen will come back like Sayid did. I think he’s a gonner, myself. Unless MIB wants to recruit him (obviously he’d be an assett, considering the way he handled Sayid! – BTW, what an awesome fight scene thrown in there), but I think that’s him dead for good. And if it is, it’s a shame. He was one of the great new additions to the show. Lennon was also fun to watch, but maybe that was just John Hawkes making it so (he’s awesome in pretty much everything, no?).
So Sayid is bad now? When did he “change his tune”? He seemed opposed to MIB until he told him he could see Nadia again (not in so many words but still). He was hostile towards MIB – when did he change his mind? He obviously knew what he was doing when he brought them that message. Naveen Andrews played the part well, that smirk he had…
How awesome was it to see Smokey storm the Temple like that? It felt like about time that happened. I’m not sure why the ash was tied to Dogen. I mean, I was thinking when MIB asked Claire to go into the Temple why he didn’t just get her to kick the ash out of the way. But obviously the fact that Dogen was in there meant even with the ash out of the way he couldn’t come in. That may go a ways to explaining what happened in the cabin: When Locke saw Christian and Claire in the cabin back in season 4, the ash was broken around it. So I’m guessing MIB, manifesting as Christian, got Claire to break the ash. Since Dogen wasn’t in the cabin taking away the ash would mean MIB could pass no problem. I’m guessing Jacob gave that ability to Dogen, to be the protector and as long as he resided in the temple it meant MIB couldn’t get in there.
Any thoughts on just how exactly MIB is going to get off the Island? I mean in a physical sense? Can’t he just turn into the Smoke Monster and fly across the water? Or is he only able to do that on Island? Will he fix the Ajira plane that, remember, is still lying there? Or is it even back in the “real world” that MIB’s home is? Could it be another timeline, maybe (the ALT timeline we’ve been seeing)?
I think that scene of Sayid and Claire walking out of the Temple is an all-time best for the show. Yes, rot, Catch a Falling Star has been used in the show before. I think Claire used to sing it to Aaron after he was born and remember Kate was singing it when she went to visit Sawyer’s daughter. This Is The End would have been great as well.
I disagree about Kate. I just think with so much going on it seems like when it’s not a centric episode for anyone that they’re not being used to their full capacity. I think the writers are doing a fantastic job balancing the madness
Where is Sawyer, btw? Did anyone see him with MIB outside the temple? I didn’t and I think if he was there they would have showed you him clearly. The last we saw of him was two episodes ago in the ‘Cave of Numbers’ (copyright, Ross Miller 2010
. Do you really think Sawyer will help MIB once he knows what he really is and what he’s done? I think he may betray him (although I think Jack will end up being the one to defeat him).
I was pleasantly surprised to see Keamy back in it again, this time as some sort of powerful money lender. Since Jin in the ALT timeline was carrying more money than he should have been without declaring it, do you think he owed money to Keamy and was bringing it back to him and because he didn’t pay up enough they had him tied up? Surely that’s it.
That’s all I can think of for now (just finished watching the episode so I’ll maybe need to watch it again to catch anything I inevitably missed) but again bloody great episode. This season is shaping up GOOOOOOODDD.
March 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@ Did anyone else think Sundown would mean it’s a Sun and Jun episode?
It was intentional
that’s how the darlton’s love to do it. Show you a pattern and then when you think you’ve got it they throw you for a loop.
Another example in this episode. Every flashsideways has had an appearance from the Others until this week when we get Keamy. Who was sort of one of Widmore’s Others I guess.
March 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Doc Jensen never lets me down. Alternate interpretation of the title – son-down. Fits into the father/son theme. Jesus (son), in hell – comes from Jensen’s theory that there is allegory here for holy thursday, good friday, and easter – backed up by the “Last Supper” marketing. First third of the season, on-island, is the first day. Consider – first third of the season ended last night. It began at night on first day, last night was the next night scenery – end of first day on-island. So who’s gonna die and go to hell and save all of humanity? Is it Sayid, already dead? I can’t but feel Kate is doomed at this point. She seems to be in completely over her head with unLocke’s crew. She looks scared, unLocke is scary. Maybe Linus will redeem himself.
March 3, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
interesting post from another site:
normal timeline
- naomi is recruited by abbadon who works for widmore
- naomi brings miles to a kitchen to test him
- keamy is apart of the same team as miles and naomi, hired by widmore to go to the island
- it was suggested in the s4(?) finale that widmore and paik knew/were aware of each other through business
- jin works for paik and is sent to LA to deliver a watch
alt. timeline
- sayid finds keamy in the same kitchen that naomi brought miles to
- sayid finds jin in that kitchen’s freezer
connect the dots.
March 4, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@stump,
Do you mean that Widmore was ultimately recruiting Sayid? That it was a test in the kitchen to see if he was up to the task? I may need to look again but I don’t think that kitchen was the same one Naomi brought Miles to. And why would Widmore risk one of his best men, Keamy, being killed?
March 4, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
No, I’m just saying it looks like Widmore is involved in whatever is going on with Jin. I guess it’s possible that he was going hard after Omer to try to get Sayid involved. The possibility that there is a war happening in the alt-timeline, comparable to the one happening on-island, is intriguing.
March 4, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Ever thought that it could be the same war? That Widmore and others know about both timelines and are recruiting in both. Probably too convoluted for this late in the game but intriguing nonetheless.
March 5, 2010
for those of you not following me on twitter, a repost:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwICmPYCXdM
good for a laugh.
March 6, 2010
Heh, funny stuff, rot. Here’s a few Lost fan videos I found funny:
Sawyer song – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqqBtafYlXg
Lost – Answers?! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PAB6Sgdp8
Lost Theme Song (the last line of lyrics really cracks me up) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5qP32YiPcs
March 9, 2010
I love Ben. I so enjoyed this episode.
March 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Me too, rot, he’s my favorite character (even if I liked it more when he was the mysterious and evil Ben over the lost, not in control Ben) and I’m glad he got an episode like that this season. It was a really good episode, very solid, but admittedly not my favorite of the season so far. My fav is either The Substitute or Sundown (Sundown ranks higher every time I think about it).
Just some quick thoughts on the episode:
I LOVED that they made Artz a high school teacher at the same school as both ALT Locke and ALT Ben. It never occurred to me that’s where we might see him pop up again. I think the impression he left with blowing up in season 1 is still remembered fondly by Lost fans even now – “I want a good spot.”
We’re finally getting to know what Ilana is all about – so apparently she wasn’t just a soldier following Jacob but he was the closest she ever had to a father. So clearly he’s “taken her under his wing” and been a real mentor to her. Question now remains if she was off-Island all the time and this is her first time there or whether she was there before and went off-Island to do help Jacob.
How awesome was Richard in this episode? Man, when he came out of the jungle to Jack and Hurley I actually cheered without even meaning to
Guess that shows how good of a character he is, how much we want to know his story and how well Nestor Carbonell plays him. Now that he’s visited the Black Rock and he touched the chains, do you think that pretty much confirms he was on the ship when Jacob and MIB watched it arrive, probably a slave? And does the fact that Jacob touched the Losties as well as Richard that they all can’t die now just like Richard? Or is touching people just the way he gifts someone and it isn’t necessarily the same gift every time?
So is Alex Ben’s daughter in the ALT timeline? I know she wasn’t his real daughter in the original timeline but perhaps it will come about in the ALT that he adopts her or something. It seems to me the major things that have happened in the original timeline are fated to always happen, even in the ALT one i.e. Keamy dying, Claire calling her baby Aaron, Sayid still being a killer etc.
Why is MIB and those leaving the Island over on the Hydra Island? And how did MIB get over there? Surely he can’t fly over the water in the form of Smokey(?). Does him wanting Ben to meet him over there mean MIB and the other are going to leave in the Ajira plane?
And WHERE THE HELL IS SAWYER? We haven’t seen him for 3 whole episodes now. I think that may be longest absence Sawyer’s had. Hopefully we see him next episode.
That’s all for now. I’m sure more will spring to mind later. Would love to read your guys’ thoughts on this stuff and more.
March 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Holy crap, I can’t believe I forgot about the end of episode twist!: Widmore finally finding the Island. I’m guessing he wasn’t there just to see how the Losties are doing lol. I’m guessing it’s to do with “the war” that’s been talked about by him and others. Is that who Jacob was referring to when he said “someone’s coming to the Island”?
March 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Maybe Widmore is going to dock at the Hydra and meet up with Locke?
I also thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Ben is a great character – it was awesome to see him come around – very satisfying. The last two episodes have shown us two main characters sort of finding their place in the universe between good and evil. It would be nice to see this happen with more characters – Jack, Kate and Sawyer are still very up in the air as to their roles, what they intend to do, how they will behave.
I have to say though that I’m a little frustrated that more hasn’t been revealed about the workings of the island, what’s been going on with Alpert, how Ben was able to lead the Others without any contact with Jacob, what the connection is with sideways-world, what is the nature of Jacob’s current existence – the list of mysteries goes on.
March 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
The interaction between Ben and Illana was particularly unsatisfying for me. Here’s Jacob’s favored child, shouldn’t the prodigal son have had more to say to her? Stuff like that doesn’t usually bother me but it felt like a gaping hole in the episode.
March 11, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Heard a theory that Illana may be Alex, which I don’t quite see, but it does get me to thinking that the first flashback to Illana we see is her face entirely bandaged and what that may mean. Did she have surgery to disguise her appearance? Not sure who she would be if that were the case.
March 11, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Theories like this are total bullshit. And there’s no way Alex is Ben’s daughter in the sideways line. It would have been obvious in the last episode if it were. They don’t pull totally idiotic twists from out of nowhere. The twists only come out of plot points that have been left intentionally vague – they’re not totally implausible weird things that happen in the face of the given circumstances.
However, thematic consistencies between Ilana and Alex and their relationship with Ben are probably very intentional. It’s just not as heavy-handed and dumb as many teenage internet theorists try to make things out to be.
March 13, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@stump,
That sounds plausible, that Widmore is meeting up with MIB. After all, he mentioned the war to the real Locke when he travelled off the show Island woke up in Tunisia. Remember – “Because there’s a war coming John. And if you’re not back there when that happens, the wrong side is going to win.” Bram came to Miles and talked about being on the side that’s going to win, and we know he wasn’t on MIB’s side. So we can deduce from that that Widmore is on MIB’s side, right? So I think Widmore is going to help MIB do whatever it is he needs to do, although we haven’t seen anything actually on-screen of MIB ever talking to MIB and him being on his side. I suppose we’ll find out.
How do you guys reckon was able to find the Island again? Did he get it out of Hawking, the latitude and longtitude I mean. Or was it another case of what is daughter, Penny, said to Desmond – “With enough money and determination you can find anyone.” In this case anyTHING.
I’m not feeling frustrated that they haven’t been giving everything about the Island and its mysteries at this point. They’ve been giving plenty of answers in a way that still feels narratively satisfying i.e. not obvious that they’re just answering one thing after another after another. They gave us a good doze of Richard’s story with the Black Rock dynamite scene last episode. Speaking of which, what did you guys think of that? The fact that the dynamite didn’t go off as Jack was expecting/hoping? Brilliant or too over-the-top? I say the former. It shows Jack’s there for a reason, either that or he can’t kill himself because Jacob touched him as he did Richard. Hmmm…
I’ve read theories that the flash-sideways are the end of the show, the epilogue to it all, and we’re just seeing it unfold just now. Sayid is now with MIB, and we know from what we saw of his conversation in the jungle right before he went back to the Temple to deliver the “Sundown” message, that MIB offered him a chance to see/be with Nadia again. What if MIB knows about, or even has some control over, the ALT timeline and what we’re seeing in the sideways is the Losties reward from MIB? Seems a bit like stretching but it makes a twisted sort of sense. The only thing I don’t like is that if it’s the end of the show then it essentially is an ending that means the plane never crashed.
I agree with stump – Ilana is Alex? She had plastic surgery to change her appearance? I think that’s just folks reading into the fact that Ilana was bandaged up. If she had plastic surgery would she really be in that crummy hospital we saw her in?
I wasn’t suggesting Alex was Ben’s daughter in the ALT timeline, I was just suggesting perhaps it’ll get to the point where he adopts her. As I said, the major things seem to become reality in the ALT timeline. At the very least he will be a mentor to her, we’ve already seen flashes of that in the Dr. Linus episode.
March 17, 2010
How to Make a Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich, According to The Losties
==============================================
Jack
1. Gather ingredients
2. Point gun at ingredients and shout “HOW DO I MAKE A SANDWICH OUT OF YOU?!?!?”
3. Breathe heavily through your nose as though you were about to hit ingredients
4. Give up and make the sandwich yourself, and eat it bitterly
Kate
1. Make separate sandwiches, one with peanut butter and one with jelly
2. Take a bite of the peanut butter sandwich, declaring it the best
3. Take a bite of the jelly sandwich, declaring it the best
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 ad infinitum
5. Follow peanut butter or jelly sandwich into grave danger
Sawyer
1. Throw the jar of jelly at wall, sneering “I don’t need no sandwich”
2. Call the mascot on the jar of peanut butter lots of clever nicknames
3. Huff and puff and stomp around and grumble a lot
4. When no one’s looking, make perfect, even, symmetrical peanut butter and jelly sandwich and sit in a corner, enjoying every bite
Locke
1. Sit idly by, believing that the ingredients will find a way to make a sandwich out of themselves
2. Lose faith and make the sandwich anyway
3. Realize that you were the instrument by which the ingredients chose to make a sandwich after all
4. Run around the room and grab everyone’s knives, insisting that their sandwiches will do the same in time
Hurley
1. Make sandwich
2. Eat sandwich
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 ad infinitum
Sayid
1. Procure 23 milligrams of uranium-20
2. Set hadron supercollider to eight megajoules
3. Program a sandwich-making macro using Cobol or Visual Basic
4. Act all tough-like
Desmond
1. Eat sandwich
2. Call the sandwich “brother”
3. Place peanut butter slice over jelly slice
4. Spread jelly on the other slice
5. Spread peanut butter on one slice
6. Take two slices of bread, a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly
Ben
1. Steal someone else’s sandwich
2. Claim you coerced them into making the sandwich for you all along
3. Say you’ll tell them everything if they make you another sandwich
4. Stare at them all creepy-like
Libby
1. Lay out plans for one of the most intricate, fascinating, and delicious sandwiches of all time
2. Just as you start making it, get shot
Danielle
1. Apply peanut butter
2. Disappear for eight months
3. Apply jelly
4. Disappear for eight months
5. Eat sandwich
Claire
1. Mmmmmmm, peanut butter
Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse
1. Make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich
2. Have someone take a bite, then tell them it’s a baloney sandwich
3. Make up a whole bunch of other shit, then say you had planned it all along
4. Buy a few yachts
March 17, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Hmmm… what was all THAT about, Andrew? Especially the end bit about Darlton? I’m asumming you didn’t like the episode/aspects of it? I thought it was real good, not my favourite of this season so far but still damn good nonetheless.
Some quick thoughts:
- So Sawyer is back to his conning ways with MIB and Widmore. Just when you thought he was telling the truth about whose side he’s on, we find out (when he talked to Kate) that he’s playing them both against each other.
- Was anyone else surprised when Widmore accepted Sawyer’s deal that he could end up killing MIB? I definitely thought Widmore was there to help MIB. Perhaps Widmore wants the Island for himself, to be in charge of it now that Jacob is gone, and wants to get rid of anyone who might get in his way. But either he doesn’t know about MIB wanting to leave the Island (i.e. Widmore could take control the Island once he left) or he has some sort of personal grudge against him. So maybe Widmore has been on the side of Jacob all along, but we just assumed since he was enemies with Ben that he was with MIB.
- I thought it was cool they made Sawyer a cop and made Miles his partner. They made a good team when they were in Dharma times. But even though he chose the path of being a cop instead of a criminal (go on, admit it – you were fooled by the scam at the beginning thinking that he was a con man just the same in the sideways timline:) he still is on a path of finding and killing Anthony Cooper. DID he really just acquire a name in Australia and then made a list of all the Anthony Coopers? Or did he kill that vender guy like we saw back in season 1?
- I’m glad they brought up the thing with Claire trying to kill Kate like she said she would when she talked to Jin. And the way MIB got control over her – clearly she really trusts and feels indebted to him.
- One thing that really bugged me was Sawyer seemed to ignore the statement that MIB made telling him he’s “that Smoke thing.” When MIB said that instead of asking, “How the hell can you turn into smoke?” Sawyer asked “You killed all those people?” Yeah, that’s sad and all but not the first question that comes to mind
- What or who do we think is in that padlocked room on Widmore’s sub? Is it a person? Desmond, maybe?
- Is anyone starting to feel a bit sorry for MIB? I mean, I know he’s this scary smoke monster that kills and terrorizes people but that story about his crazy mother and his determination kind of makes him a bit more rounded than just a villain who wants to hurt people.
That’s my initial thoughts just having watched the episode. If I did read your last comment the right way, Andrew, I don’t get how you couldn’t like it. If I read your comment wrong, I apologize
.
March 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Holy shit – “Ae Aterno” is a serious contender for “Top 10 Lost episodes ever.”
FINALLY we get the story of Richard Alpert – he’s not been seen as much as most people have wanted and yet he’s one of the best and most loved characters (see what good mystery does?:P).
I think we all knew Richard came to the Island on the Black Rock but I didn’t expect all that led up to it. I thought he was just a slave to begin with but that story they introduced in just one episode about his wife, Isabella, brings so much to it. How the hell do they manage to do that in just one episode?
To people who complain they don’t give us enough answers, here’s a ton of pretty major stuff we found out in that one episode:
- Richard was on the Black Rock as a slave
- The Black Rock was what broke the statue (I honestly didn’t see that coming, did you guys?)
- That no one can go into the foot of the statue without Jacob’s say-so, which is why MIB couldn’t go in there until he was dead and why he needed Locke & Ben to get access)
- Why Richard became ageless (even if we didn’t find out physically how he got that way, although Jacob DID touch him when they were talking outside the statue’s foot)
- Why and how Richard started “working” for Jacob
- Roughly how old Richard is (his flashback to when he was on the horse was in 1867 and he looked about 30-40 so I guess he’s about 180)
There’s probably some other things but that’s a lot of stuff that’s been explained right there. People officially can’t complain now that they haven’t explained enough in this last season.
The dynamic between Titus Welliver as MIB and Mark Pellegrino as Jacob is really great. We got hints of that in The Incident when they had THE conversation (:P) but they had great scenes in Ab Aeterno.
Who else thinks Nestor Carbonell joins those in the cast that should be nominated for an Emmy this year? He along with Michael Emerson, Terry O’Quinn and Josh Holloway should all be up there nominated, with O’Quinn winning IMO.
So what do you guys think about the conflict between MIB and Jacob? Is it that MIB is inherently evil and Jacob is keeping him trapped on the Island so he doesn’t “spread” and, in effect, take over the rest of the world? Was MIB there at the same time as Jacob or was Jacob there before him? Why does Jacob have anymore power over him in that case? And since MIB told Richard that Jacob took away his body and his humanity, why would Jacob give the power of that Smoke Monster to him?
That’s my initial reactions anyway. Again, bloody fan-tastic episode as I said one of the best EVER.
March 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I would agree, I thoroughly enjoyed Ab Aeterno, mostly because Nestor Carbonell can really act. I don’t think there were a lot of surprises to the episode, it filled in the expected gaps but did it well.
are we supposed to believe that when MiB and Jacob were first introduced in Season 5 finale, looking out at a ship, that THAT was not the Black Rock, but some other ship, because holy continuity errors Batman…
I so wish they could get it so Titus Welliver was involved in the stuff on the present day island, like you said Ross, he is awesome, and while O’Quinn is great, Titus is the most apt villain choice.
which reminds, big ass tree and MiB gives a talk to Alpert in front of it, I assume that was a Tree of Knowledge reference.
March 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
That’s one thing I would agree with, that it wasn’t totally shocking with the answers to the questions but I’ll take that if it means we actually GET the answers.
I’ve read people mentioning that, about the continuity error of it being calm and daylight when Jacob said to MIB in The Incident “I take it you’re here because of the ship — I am.” However, remember the weather seems to change on a dime on and (presumably) around the Island so perhaps when we saw Jacob and MIB having that conversation it was calm, but as the ship got closer a freak storm came on. Either that or it’s a different ship (but I really think it was supposed to be the Black Rock). Do you really think the writers wouldn’t remember the look of The Incident which wasn’t that long ago in the episode count of the show? I’d say it was intentional and not a mistake.
Well, the reason MIB is in the form of Locke is a) that was to trick us into thinking Locke had been resurrected and b) it allowed MIB to get access to Jacob (remember in Ab Aeterno Jacob said to Richard that no one can enter the statue unless Jacob invites them). I agree that Welliver is awesome and it was great seeing him as the MIB (is that Smokey’s true form or just a body he likes to use?). Do you think before the series ends MIB will change back from Locke’s body to Welliver’s?
And yes, I assume it was a reference to the Tree of Knowledge. This episode was drenched with Biblical references.
March 31, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Loved The Package, that is EXACTLY the tone and pacing I want from Lost… even if not a whole lot is revealed, I would take this over the get to point to A from point B plot-pushing of last season.
So Widmore is one of the good guys, so does that mean Ben and him just had a mutual enemy and were actually playing on the same side?
Love the call back to room 23 on the Hydra island… I guess that is all we are going to learn about it though, subliminal testing of Dharma.
Damon Lindeloff tweeted that in one week the conversation is going to change. I suspected there was going to be another substantial twist, I don’t think the good/evil place holders of Jacob and MiB are accurate or complete, science has to play a bigger part in whats going on to counterbalance this supernatural talk.
March 31, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
I wouldn’t say I would easily take it over the other style as that is more purely enjoyable, but I agree the tone and pacing of The Package was fantastic. Probably one of the best of the season so far in terms of that.
I wouldn’t exactly say that Widmore is a “good guy” in the pure sense of good and evil (that’s what mystery will do – just look at when we knew the Others as Tom Friendly with his fake beard stealing Walt from the raft
), but certainly he’s not as much of a bad guy as we first thought. I don’t think it’s a case of both he and Ben having a mutual enemy (well they do now, but not during their feud years earlier) but they were just opposed to one another for separate reasons.
I loved the call backs they had in this episode, yes including the Room 23 one (and yes I don’t think there’s anything else to it other than it’s subliminal testing). What about Mikhail making a return appearance? Awesome, I thought. And Keamy in the Flash Sideways is great, really great “slimy bad guy” acting from Kevin Durand.
What do we think Widmore meant by saying that if MIB gets off the Island everyone they care about will simply cease to be? Is that meant to be taken literally? It’s an interesting thought but seems a bit too out there even for Lost (no?)?
So do we take it now that for MIB to get off the Island he must take with him those that Jacob brought there? A kind of wiping the slate clean?
Is anyone else finding it peculiar that no one seems bothered that MIB (or Locke as the Losties still refer to him even knowing he’s not actually Locke) can turn into smoke? Everyone seems to just accept it without actually stopping and saying, “No, wait a minute, how is that physically possible?” I’m sure they’ll get to it but just miffs me right now.
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY (!!!) Desmond comes back into the picture. He appeared briefly in the first episode of the season (and disappeared off the plane?) and hasn’t been seen since, despite Henry Ian Cusick being credited in every episode as a main cast member. Did anyone guess that’s what/who was in the locked room in the submarine? I guessed it was a “who” when we first saw the room but only guessed it was Desmond when Widmore told Jin it was time he saw “The Package” in that episode.
Solid, solid episode. Not as good as Ab Aeterno (I don’t think they will top it the rest of this season, except for maybe the last episode) but still damn good.
BTW, I don’t know if we’ve discussed this but did you hear what the writers have called the finale of the whole show? It’s not in any way a spoiler but here’s a SPOILER WARNING just in case you don’t want to know the episode title:
“The End”
What do we think? Too simple? I think it’s a great way to say “this is us ending the show.” I WAS hoping for and expecting “It Only Ends Once” though…
March 31, 2010
I think that title is ironic, and it will loop to the beginning, my call anyways.
April 1, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Heard an interesting idea, maybe Widmore was after Ben because he knew Ben was going to kill Jacob.
April 2, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
What, you think maybe Widmore has been holding Desmond, knowing that he can see flashes into the future, and knew from that that Ben was going to kill Jacob? And that’s how he knew he needed to find the Island to stop MIB? Interesting theory.
April 7, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
what’s to say, the show is in full stride now, the acting has improved dramatically, there is a confident swagger to everything, I loved this episode, Desmond is the man.
April 7, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Okay, time for my (probably overly long) spilling out of my thoughts about the episode…
Damn right, rot, I think the season is finally hitting the stride that most people have been wanting it to. Personally I’ve been loving it all so far, but like last season, it has just started to kick into the high gear most people love ever since Ab Aeterno (that was about the point into the season thing “got going,” as some would say (not me though!), in season 5).
I wouldn’t call Happily Ever After (a title I was dubious about at first but love it now we’ve seen the episode) better than the Richard episode but it’s damn close. Maybe it’s just got something to do with the fact that Desmond RULES as a character. But it seems to be his episodes are always special, just as his character is (The Constant, Flashes Before Your Eyes). Coindidence?
So do we take it that Desmond’s mission is to “mind travel” into the Flash Sideways and “recruit” all the Losties and tell them that they have this whole other life? And this will be a way of sort of merging the two timelines? I’m actually surprised it hasn’t been talked about more, that it hasn’t be guessed a lot by now. So, for instance, Jack will have the choice of whether he wants his conciousness to be in the original Island timeline or the ALT timeline? I assume it’s just the ALT timeline versions that will have the choice, no?
Glad to see old familiar faces make a return: Charlie, Penny, Ms. Hawking (now Mrs. Widmore), (yay!) Daniel (yay!) and Minkowski (I did NOT expect to ever see him again in the show, did you?). Is Eloise the person who has knowledge of all the timeline stuff who keeps the rules in place? At the party with Desmond she seemed to know what was going on, what with her telling Desmond he’s not ready yet and all that.
I don’t know about you but I did not see that thing coming with Charlie nearly drowning again. Did Charlie in the ALT have flashes of dying and did that to make Desmond recall it? Or was he simply trying to see that vision of the woman he loved (Claire, I assume) by nearly dying, and trying to make Desmond nearly die so he could get the feeling of being in love with Penny?
That part where Widmore forced Desmond into that room with the electromagnetic rings was so cool – the visuals of when it was turned on when it turned kind of gold was stunning.
Why did Desmond just so casually go along with Sayid when he turned up and went all Steven Seagal on Widmore’s guys? I understand why he understood that Widmore needed him and that’s why he went along with him but he seemed to awfully easily go with Sayid. Does he now have the attitude Jack had in season 5 where he’s just going to go along with whatever happens?
How is it that Widmore and Penny are still alive, off-Island in the ALT timeline? I mean, we know how Ben got off because his dad said they never stayed (meaning probably they were evacuated when Dr. Chang got most folks of the Island in the ’70s) but presumably all the Others would have just drowned (as did Richard?).
And was it just me or did we hear that the detonating of the bomb wasn’t the the incident? When Daniel was talking to Desmond in the ALT timeline he said, “what if this wasn’t the life we weer supposed to have?” He said, “what if we changed things?”
That’s all for now. Loved the episode. As I said it’s right up there – easily top 20 episodes out of the 114 so far (yes, we’ve been at it for 114 episodes!). Would love to hear more of your thoughts on it…
…looks like it’s just you and me now, rot, who discuss the show on here
April 7, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I forgot to mention that box Desmond was thrown into was highly reminiscent of Jacob’s Cabin… old fashion chair, the wood slats… we still don’t know what that cabin is.
also I am reminded of Ben’s talking to Locke about a special box that would contain whatever you wished for, and Anthony Cooper appears on the island. That box seems to pre-exist Widmore getting there, there was also a rabbit in one of the scenes, seems like an old Dharma experiment unit.
April 9, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Yeah I noticed that box Desmond was in was reminiscent of Jacob’s cabin, although I don’t think it’s meant to be it’s the same kind of thing. Just a throwback/reference to the cabin.
And wasn’t it established by Ben in season 3 that the magic box was a metaphor and not an actual thing? Was that thing Widmore put Desmond into already there or built by Widmore and his team?
April 14, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Does Desmond killing Locke in other timeline mean Smokey doesn’t have a body to leave island in?
Loved the faceoff around the well, Desmond showing no fear.
April 16, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I don’t think that Desmond running over Locke in the ALT has anything to do with MIB. I have a feeling MIB either doesn’t exist or is in his original form in the ALT timeline. I think Desmond’s just trying to to give Locke a near-death experience to get him to realize the other timeline.
And I don’t think Desmond has killed him. Here’s my guess as to how that will play out: Helen agreed that she doesn’t need Locke to walk again and ripped up Jack’s doctor card. I reckon Locke will NEED to be operated on because he was knocked down and we’ll see Helen taking out the trash and she’ll find the ripped up card, call Jack up and he will operate on Locke, fixing him in the process and he’ll be able to walk again.
How’s THAT for a slice of fried gold?
April 22, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Oh well… guess my “Helen finding Jack’s card” scene didn’t come to fruition:P Still, it finally gets to what we all knew was going to happen – Jack will fix Locke and make him walk in the ALT timeline. Is this leading to Locke jumping to the original timeline and we’ll finally get the real Locke “resurrected” as half of the Lost fans have been saying (the other half are saying him being killed in the hotel room is the end of the road).
Aaaaannnnddd… yet ANOTHER big question answered – Jack’s dad on the Island (including in the cabin with Claire) was MIB and not actually Christian. I know it was pretty obvious but it’s always good to get it definitively answered.
Do you think what MIB said about when Jacob brings you to the Island you’re trapped, does that mean MIB was brought there like anybody else by Jacob and needs to get everyone else (who is still alive) who Jacob brought to leave with him for him to be able to leave himself (if that made sense)?
Does ANYONE actually think Sayid killed Desmond? No way would they have done that, not at least without showing us. Plus I think Desmond will be key to the rest of the story.
I thought this was a great episode furthering the plot, loved the way it used various different flash sideways instead of focusing just on one (we haven’t had a “various” episode since LA X).
Heh, did anyone have a bit of panick thinking that the writers had forgot about Miles and Jin when they were stealing the boat? I honestly thought for a bit that they’d forgotten to write them in but then I remembered before Hurley and Jack set off to talk with MIB, Jin and Miles were some of the ones who didn’t want to go.
FINALLY Jin and Sun reunite, after a whopping 30 episodes (since the end of season 4). Great little moment there that even the characters stopped to appreciate.
It’s clearly the beginning of the end now and I can’t wait to find out how the whole thing ends. BTW, there’s no episode next week as the show is taking a break. So The Last Recruit is our last episode for a couple of weeks
April 23, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
yeah but MIB wasn’t always Christian, how do you explain the scene where the ghost of Christian meets Jack off island?
April 23, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Just Jack imagining things, I think. On the note of Christian appearing off-Island, what about the scene in the freighter where Christian appears and says to Michael, “You can go now”? If MIB can’t go across the water, how did he appear? I think it’s just a continuity error myself.
May 12, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Did Smokey’s mom say his name as she was dying. Matt at mamo thought he called him Owen? Was kind of weird how they never say his name but say Jacob a thousand times.
Even with a whole episode devoted to the back story it felt rushed, they could have used more time to extend the story I think.
Being born on the island makes you important? not really, Alex died.
May 12, 2010
I think his name is Esau. Or so I’ve read.
May 13, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I wonder if the first season light smokey has something to do with the death of MiB too… they never explained why there was this column of light that peered into Locke.
May 15, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
*********
How did I guess you’d have problems with this episode, rot?
His Mother (as she’s being referred to simply as) didn’t say his name. She just said “Thank you.” I assume that was because, like the Candidates and Richard etc, she can’t kill herself.
I know this may seem like I’m just a Lost fan that follows it blindly but I really did love this episode. I thought they did a great job of delving into Jacob and MIB’s backstory. Some things that were explained didn’t turn out exactly as you’d been led to think from previous hints but doesn’t that just show the writers’ skills? Not all is as it seems all the time (or much of the time:P).
About MIB’s name, I’m gonna guess they’re never going to reveal it (@Andrew – Esau is just a name fans call him because that was Jacob’s brother in the Bible). They had a million chances to in that episode but obviously chose not to. I think it’s to keep him mysterious, he’s just this mysterious figure who doesn’t have a name but the ones you chose personally to give him (MIB, Flocke, Smokey etc). I think it’s a wise idea. I mean, was everyone mad that we didn’t know Clint Eastwood’s name in the Dollars Trilogy? No. What is finding out his name REALLY going to add to things? Can you think of ANY name that would be some sort of huge, game-changing revelation to the show as a whole? I certainly can’t.
I would be very surprised if what Locke saw in Season 1 didn’t have to do with The Source (what did you guys think of that BTW – cool or cheesy?). Perhaps Locke saw it when he looked at the Smoke Monster because he’s “special” like MIB. Like only someone who is special or has a link to the Island (or if someone “believes”) can they see The Source (although what contradicts it is the fact that MIB said he looked for 30 years and couldn’t find it).
Do you think the Smoke is MIB’s soul or what have you that was ripped from his body and he just took the form of MIB all those years because he wanted to look like himself? Or did Jacob unleash the Smoke when he threw MIB in there and MIB is just dead and that was his body? I think it’s MIB’s soul/is really him for two reasons – 1) Mother said that when you go down into The Source you’re not dead but something worse than that and 2) He still wants desperately to get off the Island as MIB wanted to.
One thing I was confused about: Were the characters supposed to be speaking in English? At the start of the episode when Jacob and MIB’s real mother washed ashore, she and Mother (the woman on the Island) weren’t talking English at first but then they suddenly switched to it. I just thought they knew how to speak English but my Dad suggested they weren’t supposed to be speaking English but the show just had them speaking it because it’s easier for us to understand (kind of like they did with movies like The Hunt For Red October and Valkyrie). If it was supposed to be that weren’t meant to be speaking English then they didn’t make it very clear and does that mean any time in the past where there’s been a situation like that it’s the same deal – they’re not actually speaking English?
I think people are being unfairly harsh on this episode. A major part of that is because of where they decided to place it in the season. It’s an episode that could have came earlier, admittedly, but that shouldn’t affect people’s view of the actual events within the episode. It came right after a heavy episode with the deaths of 3 major characters and it didn’t have any of the main characters in it out with the re-use of a past scene (which a lot of people complained the use of was very heavy-handed). My guess is people will look back on the episode once the show is over – looking at things as a whole rather than on a week-by-week basis – and adjust their thoughts on it. It maybe raised some more questions that we probably didn’t need but it answered a ton of stuff too.
May 19, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
*********
I’m saying Jack’s ex-wife is Anna Lucia, and that Juliet will just appear at the concert in some other context. Stretch I know.
Thoroughly enjoyed WHAT THEY DIED FOR, I am all in at this point.
How was Ben able to kill Widmore, that took me for a loop!
Could it have been anybody but Jack, come on. Jack is the man. He has to fix everything and now he can.
May 23, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I am trying desperately to find that comment I made at least two (probably 3) years ago that accurately predicted the final shot of the series. It actually kind of sucks to be right, but I like the way it ended for the most part. A little anti-climactic, but apropos of the show as a whole I think.
May 24, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
yeah but I get the feeling anybody who thinks right after watching the finale they understand it, are deluded. Its not JUST or even that everything loops back to the beginning, or that there is a purgatory in the last season, there is alot to chew over. I see a lot of people tweeting oh, its heaven, I knew it, or some such nonsense. It was the same with the finale of Sopranos, kneejerk response but when you look at all the details something else emerges. Not saying I understand it, and frankly I wish it was a little more concrete, but still pretty awesome.
the scar that Kate stitches on Jack in first episode is the knife wound from Locke.
a new Oceanic six leave on Aljira, again looping events.
May 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I think the whole things comes down to a bunch of interesting stuff that wasn’t addressed. Not saying everything needs to be answered, but so much stuff was simply ignored or not explored enough. The whole bit at the end in the church was a little eye rolling. Sure it was a little emotional, but it was also very unintelligent. A 45-minute cast reunion? Sorry, not impressed.
Christian Shepherd standing in front of a stained glass window (with a star of David, a cross, a yin-yang, a wheel, the hindu symbol thing and something else I can’t remember) with a halo and rays coming out of his head? Really?
They’re in purgatory? Wow. enlightening. Isn’t this what pretty much everyone said in late season 1 and most of season 2 until the creators said, “no, that’s not it.” Now we find it is? I think that’s a little lame and not particularly smart/creative writing. It was frankly a little insulting.
The FilmJunk podcast (pre “The End”) had some interesting ideas and predictions and pretty much all of them were more interesting than the actual show.
May 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS ************** LOST DISCUSSION ************** RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER **************
As I read more and more about the show, I get a little bit better about what the creators were going for, but I still think things could’ve been handled a little bit better. It’s epic and interesting to be sure, I just would’e liked a little more info and closure about some other things.
May 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS ************** LOST DISCUSSION ************** RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER **************
I don’t know I think its not quite purgatory and there is nothing to say that this is not a parallel universe brought on by the electromagnetic events of the Incident, through which Desmond is able to bridge the realities and give some sort of peace to those stuck in the loop of the island. Desmond is part of Jacob’s plan, the fail-safe, so this reunion in the alternate reality is likely also part of Jacob’s plan (remember he did tell Widmore to bring Desmond back to the island to kick-start this revelation). I always had the impression that Jacob was not surprised by Ben killing him, and that the fail-safe was his means of fulfilling his objective after he dies. I just don’t quite understand what it means, that the characters are able to reunite after death… it reminds me of the Oceanic symbol, several dots around what looks like an island, maybe like the magic numbers, there is something vital to the characters being able to work or be together, to maintain the loop (I think it was Ross who suggested that the numbers beside the name were iterations of the same kind of candidate). I don’t know, lots to think about.
but I do like this guy’s theory at least about the rules and the loophole which I was hoping to be explained:
http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05/they-found-their-loophole-by-agraciotti.html
this one is good to:
http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05/lost-understanding-finale-endthe.html
May 25, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS ************** LOST DISCUSSION ************** RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER **************
Also the cork looked like the Oceanic symbol, with a circle within a circle with dot indents around it. Like the button needing to be pushed in intervals, and like Jacob saying this all happens again and again, there seems to be some kind of cosmic balance so long as Jacob’s game continues. The sideways reality serves some part of Jacob’s plan at balance, and it has something to do with winning over the MiB threat of souls being ‘claimed’.
About Desmond being the fail-safe, it has to be assumed that he was called there by Jacob (Libby maybe being like Ilana). The numbers on the computer are Jacob’s number, though made by Dharma the Swan had to have been influenced by Jacob. I was rewatching part of Season 2, and it hit me that Desmond was in that hatch longer than anyone alive, next to the electromagnetic energy, maybe that is why he has this remarkable tolerance for it, that makes him Jacob’s own fail-safe. Jacob of course instigated the event that caused the plane crash too.
The Incident with the bomb seems to kickstart the sideways flash, so was that also part of Jacob’s plan? Thats where I get confused, particularly with the time travel. Was Eloise still working for Jacob, or did she break off because of the death of her son? She seemed adamant that Desmond not complete his mission.
Perhaps Ben was MiB’s loophole because he was able to get him to kill Locke and bring his body on the Aljira flight… and convince Ben, one of the anointed Others, to kill Jacob. Maybe that is the loophole, not that you get any old person to kill Jacob, but that it is one of his followers (candidates?). SO many gaps though, like why did Ben feel it necessary to be judged by the Black smoke when he returned to the island? Did that have to do with Smokey taking over Jacob’s cabin and giving false information?
May 26, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Why did no one die from an atomic bomb they were 50 feet away from?
Whitmore’s end was pretty anti-climactic don’t you think?
What IS the smoke monster? Better yet, WHY is he?
June 5, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
Whoah, just realized I forgot to chime in with my thoughts in our usual meeting place to discuss Lost!
I’ve watched The End three times now and I gotta say it just gets better and better every time, especially when you look back on the show as a whole, looking at it from what it’s really always been about at its core – the characters. I’m surprised you especially, Andrew, didn’t respond to it more positively – it gave a great resolution to the journeys of these CHARACTERS, even if it never answered everything. I think anyone expecting the writers to be in check-list-ticking mode in season 6 and particularly in the last few episodes were betting on the wrong horse. The show’s about mystery and questions, for sure, but primarily it’s character orientated. Most of the mysteries weren’t answered simply because it would have felt forced and contrived to go out of their way just to answer them.
For instance, I read the writers said they know who was in the other outrigger shooting at the Losties when they were time-travelling but how could they have worked that in there with all the other stuff going on, without it seeming forced in there just so we know who it was? Would you really have wanted them to go out of their way to explain who exactly The Economist was in season 4 or what was in that box that Ben had in the hotel room at the start of season 5? Think about it – do those sorts of questions REALLY matter?
In my eyes the ending was a kind of purgatory or limbo for the characters after they’d died. @Andrew – you see those who said “They’re in purgatory!” back in season 1 weren’t right because they were meaning they died in the crash and the Island was purgatory. It wasn’t that. Everything that happened on the Island was real i.e. 6 years wasn’t for nothing (as some folks view it). Like Christian explained in the church – some died before Jack and some long after him. And the reason they’re all in that place at the same time is because “there’s no NOW.. HERE.” It’s not like in the Sideways world that Jack was waiting around for 40 years or however long for Kate, Sawyer, Desmond etc to die. No matter when they died they all ended up there at the same time.
Some people are confused why certain characters never appeared in the church at the end before the characters moved on – taking it within the context of the story (and not that certain actors *cough* Adewale aka Mr. Eko! *cough* wouldn’t come back), it’s because they still had stuff to work out before they could move on, or they already had moved on. We saw Mr. Eko’s moving on when he was killed by Smokey and the last thing we saw was him walk awya with his brother, Yemi; Ana-Lucia, as Hurley said in the Sideways, wasn’t ready yet; Michael is still stuck on the Island (whispering); Walt moved on long ago; And Daniel, Frank, Miles, Charlotte, all those guys – they all would move on (perhaps together) at a different time.
Oh, and Jack’s son wasn’t real, did you guys get that? Locke said it to him as he walked away from him in the hospital. Jack always wanted to have a good relationship with his father and he manufactured a son so that he could have the relationship with him he never had himself.
The great thing about the ending is it’s got people talking, even after it’s finished. They easily could have finished with a safe ending that tied everything up neatly with nothing left to discuss but they simultaneously wrapped things up but still left stuff open (how most of the characters died being a major one). Quite ingeniously done in my eyes. To answer those questions, Andrew:
1. The Jughead explosion (at least this is how I read it) was just a red-herring to make you think in season 6 that an alternate timeline had been created. But all it did was get the Losties back to where they belong, in the present time with Ben and Sun etc. Remember Daniel said it to Jack in season 5 when he came back on the submarine – that his mother was wrong and that they don’t belong in that time period. I assume they didn’t died because when it exploded the electromagnetism was so strong that it acted as an instant-jump in time.
2. I don’t think Widmore’s end was anti-climactic at all. It spat in the face of these “rules” we’ve been hearing about. I find it hard to believe anyone saw his sudden death coming, although he had it coming for a long time I’d say
On the subject of the rules: I have a feeling that some of the rules were real but some were just manufactured (by Jacob, perhaps) to keep things on-track. I’m think there were no rules that stopped Ben and Widmore from killing each other, but the rules were real stopping Jacob and MIB from killing each other (as Mother said in “Across the Sea”).
3. Again, how MIB became the Smoke Monster is open to interpretation. I think since he was inherently bad then the smoke was the evil ripped out of him, kind of like his soul. I wondered why when Jack was down at the Source and he was laying in the glowing water why he didn’t get turned into Smoke. But if you remember in “Across the Sea” when Jacob threw MIB down to go into the cave he hit his head and then his body was found in the same stream Jack ended up in. I assume MIB was dead before he went into the light. I don’t think the Smoke is the actual BODY of MIB.
@rot,
I don’t think Jack’s scar at the start of the show that Kate stitched was the stab wound from MIB. Or are you meaning it represents a mirroring of beginning and end? Also – I didn’t think of it upon watching it at first – that mark on Jack’s neck in the sideways was meant to be when MIB almost stabbed his neck. I think since Jack was the last one to let-go – the one who found it the hardest and kept resisting – it was his body’s way of trying to force him.
All in all I am VERY satisfied with the way the show ended. For me it completely summed up everything I love most about the show. As I said, it didn’t answer everything (Walt’s powers? The Source? Eloise knowing so much?) but I honestly never expected it to.
Now I need to find another show to match it. I haven’t found one that I like as much. And believe me – I’ve looked: Even things like The Wire, Six Feet Under, True Blood, Twin Peaks, Fringe, Dexter and The Sopranos haven’t touched LOST.
June 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
rewatching the Season 3 premiere, Christian tells jack in flashback TWICE to LET GO, and then while he is locked up in the shark tank Jack hears over the broken intercom Christian saying yet again, Let Go. This is the same thing Rose says in the season 6 premiere on the plane. This reminds me also of the scene in Season 3 where the stewardess is staring at Jack in the bear cage, and I can’t remember if she says something like “you’re him”. It seems pretty clear that as early as the beginning of season 3 (prior to them making the deal for # of seasons) they knew it was all about Jack.
Also to explain more clearly here what I was hinting at in the Cinecast thread… it has just dawned on me that all the secrecy of the Others was justified within the narrative… following Jacob’s orders not to interfere in the candidates lives anymore than is absolutely necessary, that free will has to be allowed. Also its a pretty big mindfuck and it seems the plan was to gradually get them use to what is ahead of them, so they didn’t choose hastily. I am starting to think Oceanic 6 was Jacob’s idea to cement how important the island is, particularly for Jack. Christian could have been working with Jacob at the donkey wheel when he was talking to Locke, their plan to get them back. Seems odd that if Christian was Smokey in that case he would tell Locke to tell Jack that he loves him. Smokey said it was always him appearing as Christian to Jack, but this was a case of Christian (who has no relation to Locke) appearing to someone else.
June 10, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
One thing I don’t understand is if Ben never heard from Jacob, then who was instructing The Others on, for example, getting the list, or building the runway? I guess Smokey, but then why wouldn’t Smokey impersonate Jacob in his Cabin to get him to do his bidding? Unless Richard was coaxing them in the direction needed.
June 12, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
the last sound Jack hears before he dies is the sound of the plane above him… that is the swoosh sound of every flashback.
June 13, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
I think they knew it was all about Jack from the beginning. I know there’s the trivia that ORIGINALLY they planned to kill Jack off at the end of the first half of the pilot (supposedly he was meant to be up in the tree instead of the pilot) but that was in the idea stages. I believe when they actually WROTE it they focused on it being about Jack above all others.
I think it was Smokey down at the Donkey Wheel, and by telling Locke to tell his son he said hello, I just think he was trying to drive Locke to despair and ultimately death because he knew Jack would not want to go back with Locke. How could Christian be working for Jacob? He was dead and Jacob couldn’t appear as dead people like MIB could (as far as we know, anyway).
On the “let go” thing. There was another instance of that in season 5 when Sawyer was helping Locke down the well – when they time-jumped and the well was covered up, Sawyer was still holding onto the rope (like Juliet said when the time-jumps started; anything that they have with them is along for the ride). Miles then says to him – “You can let go now.” It’s wicked cool when you look back and see stuff tie up like that
Isn’t it pretty clear that Richard was the in-between guy for Jacob? He said as much on the beach when he made Richard ageless. Whenever Jacob didn’t want to get involved, Richard passed on his instructions, lists etc.
(BTW, in season 3 Danny says when Juliet allows Jack to operate on Ben that Jack “isn’t even on Jacob’s list”. I believe that’s just an error by the writers. Either that or Jacob hadn’t put Jack on the list yet at that point but I doubt it.)
I actually read that the sound of plane flying above Jack was the flash-sideways sound and not the flashback. I listened again and it kind of sounds like a mix of the two to me.
June 14, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
I just watched that episode where Pickett says Jack isn’t on Jacob’s list. If you remember in the Lighthouse, Jack’s name is scratched on where as everyone else’s name is clean. Maybe he was a last minute addition.
I don’t think they fully explained what the Others do, and are they any different than Ilana’s group of bodyguards? They are all anointed and one would assume eager to protect the island and hence, the candidates… but then what was Season 3 all about? What was Ben up to with the Candidates? I guess protecting them from Smokey? But why does Ben need to be judged by Smokey later on? When does Smokey intrude on Ben’s life in such a way as to make him turn? He isn’t always working for Smokey because at one point on the island he tries to kill Locke… lots of questions
July 2, 2010
THIS COMMENT MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS
**************
LOST DISCUSSION
**************
RECENT COMMENTS BUFFER
**************
@rot,
Yeah, I remember Jack’s name just being etched on ther and I’m sure that was entirely on purpose so maybe he was a late addition. But then it begs the question of why Jack was one of the numbers and why Jacob was watching him from childhood.
I think Ben was trying to stop the Losties from leaving because it’s what Jacob wanted. I don’t think Jacob wanted them to leave the Island (was it you, rot, who suggested he orchestrated the Ajira plane crashing etc – although what suggests he did know was why else would have been making the others build a run way in season 3?).
The whole thing was that Ben was manipulated by Smokey from a young age, right from when he first came to the Island (remember his mother appeared to him?). Did Smokey always know he was going to appear as Locke? Maybe it was some point after that he decided that Locke was the one who’d get him access to Jacob (remember Jacob said no one comes into the statue unless he invites them). He said to Jack in season 6 – they were nice enough to bring him to the Island in a nice wooden box
May 14, 2011
http://classsex.ru/sex/22.jpg
http://opapizda.com/img/43/index.jpg
http://tdq.in/images/1/79.jpg
bi sex nm ru
стриптиз фото эротика
порно пышки видео
видео пизды бритой
минаев телки
знакомство топ100 эротика
сексуальные фанфики про секс
целочка порно фото
порно фото 16
порно фото секс лесбиянок
bb.txt open error
кровь после секса
www super porno ru
порно фильмы елены берковой
порно мололетних
порно девственници
анна невская порно
жестокие порно фотки
чехова секс
xxx video clips
lisa porno
секс порно фото зрелых
доска секс знакомств
порно фото галереи групповой секс
порно 70
самая красивая пизда фото
порно де
порно голубые
anal sex posting
порно flesh
секс порно училка
July 11, 2011
שמיר
December 26, 2011
In the past, organisations manipulate cubicles and various furniture systems so that you can minimize disturbance around secretarial staff. Despite the fact that it was and continues to be a great way with reducing tone, setting areas concerning families in addition to trimming them far from the rest of the company can on occasion possess consequence with causing claustrophobia. Due to this it happens to be cautioned which any kind of partitioning anyone generate onto your business office floors are generally properly planned together with executed. For you to be able to write off cubicles completely, you should look they will can have got many great elements. By way of example, many people ought to operate around much more confidential quarters as opposed to out and about on view. Most people discover you will find numbers a lesser amount of distractions when ever in a very open office space and they also have more job accomplished. The primary level of their this really that there’s no one very easy alternative this will work for each and every provider and their secretarial employees. Choosing the right headphones for your workplace methods entertaining the idea of a lot of areas like what cloth they are constructed from, what they cost, and the best way relaxed they’re just as soon as intended for long periods of time. In addition, it will take that you evaluate the simplest way perfectly your workplace theme is normally earning a living along with regardless if it’s best to get new pieces of furniture. Prefer several judgements you have got to can result in your workplace, there are many with many other factors you might not at once look into. These are that kinds of things that will assist you to operate far better or even induce many aggravation. The best way excellent your headset can be may be your summary factor because using a variety of families you’ll discover a number of choice. A lot of choose smallish, sleek and stylish headsets which use just one earphone and then a very discreet mike whilst others wish headphones that contain a few larger plus more cozy headsets and a boom mic. Some individuals, certainly those who don”t get several cell phone calls, would rather try using a regular mobile phone headset not an item that they dress yourself in on their scalp.first thing|a very important factor|the one thing} exclusive — personalized, sexual and additionally globally genuine.
Headphones with Painless Work
beats by monster